Ward Just: 'An Unfinished Season'

DATE July 8, 2004 ACCOUNT NUMBER N/A
TIME 12:00 Noon-1:00 PM AUDIENCE N/A
NETWORK NPR
PROGRAM Fresh Air

Interview: Adam McKay talks about his career and his new movie
starring Will Ferrell, "Anchorman"
TERRY GROSS, host:

This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross.

My guest, Adam McKay, directed and co-wrote "Anchorman," a new film satirizing
local TV news shows of the '70s. The anchorman in question, Ron Burgundy, the
top-rated anchor in San Diego, is played by Will Ferrell who also co-wrote the
script. McKay and Ferrell first worked together on "Saturday Night Live"
where McKay was head writer. McKay is an alum of the Chicago-based comedy
theater group Second City and was a founding member of the Upright Citizens
Brigade.

The news team in the movie "Anchorman" covers all kinds of fluff with great
seriousness. Let's get in the mood by listening to the opening of
"Anchorman's" "Channel 4 News."

(Soundbite of "Anchorman")

Mr. CHUCK POYNTER: (As Announcer) For San Diego news you can count on, trust
only the best.

(Soundbite of car brakes)

Mr. POYNTER: (As Announcer) The Channel 4 news teams. With seven-time Emmy
Award-winning anchorman Ron Burgundy.

Mr. WILL FERRELL: (As Ron Burgundy) I'm Ron Burgundy and this is what's
happening in your world tonight.

Mr. POYNTER: (As Announcer) Champ Kind with the latest in sports.

Mr. DAVID KOECHNER: (As Champ Kind) Whammy!

Mr. POYNTER: (As Announcer) Brick Tamland with up-to-the-minute weather.

Mr. STEVEN CARELL: (As Brick Tamland) It's 38 degrees in the Middle East.

Mr. POYNTER: (As Announcer) Brian Fantana, your man in the field.

Mr. PAUL RUDD: (As Brian Fantana) And watch, the mood is tense.

Mr. POYNTER: (As Announcer) And our newest reporter, Veronica Corningstone.

Ms. CHRISTINA APPLEGATE: (As Veronica Corningstone) It was quite a showdown
here at the pet shack.

(Soundbite of cat)

Mr. POYNTER: (As Announcer) So when you're looking for serious news, look no
further than the Channel 4 news team.

GROSS: Adam McKay, welcome to FRESH AIR.

Now "Anchorman" is set in the '70s at a time when local news had a lot less
competition than it does today because it's the pre-cable era.

Mr. ADAM McKAY (Director, "Anchorman"): Right.

GROSS: How do you see, like, the importance of, like, the local news and the
local news anchors in the period that your movie's set?

Mr. McKAY: Well, they were huge back then. That was three channels so they
really were like the voice of God in their community. And, you know, when
they would do a promotional deal at a shopping mall or something, you would
have like 30,000 people would show up for these things. I remember when I was
a kid, you know, I lived in a little town outside Philadelphia, Don Tollefson,
who was the local sports guy in Philadelphia, came to our town and literally
10,000 people showed up. And I got Don Tollefson's autograph and it was like,
you know, Elvis had whipped a sweaty towel at me or something. I was just as
thrilled as can humanly be. And I'm not sure that would be the case anymore.
I think Don Tollefson would be surrounded by about eight people in the park if
that happened now.

GROSS: Well, you know, it's such a really funny parody of the news and you
have your opening news collage in which, you know, all of the anchors and
reporters walk onto the set. Would you describe how that looks?

Mr. McKAY: Oh, yeah. Well, that--you know, a lot of that came directly from
real tapes we saw of the '70s news openings, you know, from Jessica Savitch
and Mort Crim back in the mid-'70s. And basically the whole sort of theme
that I'm sure they were thinking was, you know, `We command the city.' So
it's a lot of pushes and tight shots and then our favorite element of it is,
in the end, you have the entire news team all look up in the camera with a,
quote, "serious journalist stare" at the same time. And instantly Will and I
were laughing and saying, `That is just directly going into the movie.' So
that actually is in the movie and that's taken from Mort Crim and Jessica
Savitch, circa, I think, '75 or '76.

GROSS: There's a lot of, like, film references in "Anchorman," and the
competing news teams from the different channels have these kind of street
fights. It's like they're street gangs, you know.

Mr. McKAY: Exactly. Yeah.

GROSS: And it's really funny and you use some of the kind of film language
of, like, the black action films of the era to...

Mr. McKAY: Yeah. Yeah.

GROSS: ...shoot the news anchors on the street. How did you think about
those comparisons?

Mr. McKAY: You know, we had this competition between Will and Vince Vaughn
who's character is named Wes Mantooth and he was the number-two rated station.
And they kept getting in each other's faces throughout the script when we'd
read it. And everyone kept saying, you know, `This needs to build. This is
the tension that's going underneath this movie.' And, you know, when you're
dealing with Vince Vaughn and Will in suits with perfect hair and mustaches,
you're going to have a gang fight basically. So it was kind of our only
option.

And, yeah, we did. We always modeled it after sort of "West Side Story," kind
of "Blackboard Jungle" kind of stuff and then with a--once the fight starts, a
little bit of "Braveheart" thrown in for good measure.

GROSS: Oh.

Mr. McKAY: That was definitely the funnest scene in the entire movie to
shoot. That was a blast.

GROSS: The royal rumble, the fight.

Mr. McKAY: Yeah. Yeah.

GROSS: You have like every cliche in the books in that, including like one
guy catches fire and runs across the scene.

Mr. McKAY: My friends all laugh because they've known that for years my dream
is to, you know, have a man on fire in a film. So it finally happened. For
no reason whatsoever, that was always the condition. So...

GROSS: What were the films that inspired you to need that shot?

Mr. McKAY: Oh, you know, it's always the bad 1960s, 19, kind of, '70s film
where they'd light the guy on fire and then blatantly it would be a stuntman
wrapped up in cloth, like, suddenly a completely different body on fire. I
always think of, like, "Westworld" when Yul Brynner was on fire and it's that
slow-motion `I'm on fire' kind of move that they always do. So I actually had
to tell the stuntman not to act it as well as you normally would. 'Cause
normally they'd play it real and scatter all around. And I said, `No, no.
Kind of walk kind of slow and move your arms in the air.' So...

GROSS: What are some of the favorite headlines that you wrote for
"Anchorman"?

Mr. McKAY: You mean the fake news stories?

GROSS: The fake news stories, yeah.

Mr. McKAY: Well, some of the best fake news stories were the ones--Will just
suddenly became a master at improvising these fake news stories and he would
always give you a little taste of them as you came out of other stories. And
we would just marvel at the fact that he probably came up with 100 of them.
What are some of my favorites? There was one he would do, `Christmas in July,
you ask? That's right. Santa's Village is coming to the local mall, just for
July. Christmas in summer?'

He did another one about San Diego being renamed Boz Scaggs' Town for a big
Boz Scaggs' concert. It was, like--it was always, like, the fun game
of--usually the bad stories involved animals. Like we had one that was `After
the bear destroyed the PhotoMat booth, he scampered back into the woods.' And
then Will goes, `Apparently he wasn't too happy with his color prints.' And
they'd both chuckle kind of inanely. But that one always made us laugh
because, God, you know, a bear ripping apart a PhotoMat booth. That's a
serious and dangerous story and just 'cause it's animals they always play it
off light. But animals were definitely the formula. We came up with just
hundreds of different animal stories as that sort of being our comment on the
local news and their regular stories.

GROSS: You and Will Ferrell have written together a lot beginning with
"Saturday Night Live." How much of this new movie is improvised?

Mr. McKAY: We improvised hours and hours of footage when we were shooting.
We would always do two takes as written and then we'd just go and go and we
rolled out all the time, you know, have the cameraman just say, `I'm out.'
And if we'd have two cameras going, I'd let the other guy keep rolling. So
I'd say as far as what made it to the actual movie, probably about 25 percent.
I mean, there's whole scenes in the movie that came out of improv. Him crying
in the phone booth was a one-line scene that he just expanded on. And I gave
the brilliant note of, `Keep going, only bigger,' you know, which is a great
note to give Will.

And, you know, actually the "Afternoon Delight" scene where they sing,
basically, was improvised. Paul Rudd came to me about a week before and said,
`Wouldn't it be great if we just sang a perfect four-part harmony version of
"Afternoon Delight."' And I basically right away was just like, `That's going
in the movie.' And like the day of I told them that we were doing it and they
had only rehearsed it for like 10 minutes so they just kind of came up with
the whole scene and did the thing on the spot. So it was quite...

GROSS: I actually really love that. Why don't you explain the context of it
and then we'll play the song.

Mr. McKAY: Well, basically they're trying to understand what love is so
they're talking to Ron and they just can't understand. So finally he has to
break into this perfect rendition of "Afternoon Delight."

GROSS: Well, let's hear it. so this is the cast of "Anchorman" singing
"Afternoon Delight."

Mr. McKAY: Can I apologize?

GROSS: For what?

Mr. McKAY: Can I apologize to your listeners before they hear this? All
right. Let me give a warning to your listeners if they're driving and they're
about to hear this, you may start sobbing. You may want to hug loved ones.
So maybe pull over to the side of the road before we play it.

GROSS: Yeah. Here it is.

(Soundbite of "Anchorman")

Mr. FERRELL: (As Ron Burgundy) You really want to know what love is.

Unidentified Actor #1: Yeah.

Mr. RUDD: (As Brian Fantana) Yes, tell us.

Unidentified Actor #1: More than anything in the world, Ron.

Mr. FERRELL: (As Ron Burgundy) Well, it's really quite simple. It's kind of
like (singing) `Gonna find my baby, gonna hold her tight. Gonna grab some
afternoon delight. My motto's always been when it's right it's right. Why
wait until the middle of a cold, dark night.'

Cast: (Singing in unison) `When everything's a little clearer in the light of
day. And we know that night is always gonna be there anyway. Thinkin' of
you's working' up my appetite. Looking forward to a little afternoon delight.
Rubbing sticks and stones together making sparks ignite and the thought of
lovin' you is getting so exciting. Skyrockets in flight.'

Unidentified Actor #2: Boooo.

Cast: (Singing in unison) `Afternoon delight.'

Unidentified Actor #3: Whoop. You guys have it, I think.

Mr. FERRELL: (As Ron Burgundy) Huh.

Cast: (Singing in unison) `Afternoon delight.'

GROSS: That's Will Ferrell and several other members of the news team in the
new movie "Anchorman" singing "Afternoon Delight."

Why that song? I mean, why--did you all agree that this is the song that they
have to do?

Mr. McKAY: No, I think your answer is in the question. Why this song? I
think that's why. Why in God's name that song? That song explains nothing
about love. Yeah, it's just the--it seemed like the perfect one to do
four-part harmony on. It was either that or "If" and--"If" by Bread and we
didn't want to...

GROSS: Wait, which one is that? Do a few bars of that.

Mr. McKAY: (Singing) `If a picture paints a thousand words, then why can't I
paint you?' So you can see why we didn't do that one.

GROSS: Thanks for refreshing my memory. I really hate that song.

Mr. McKAY: Yeah.

GROSS: Yeah.

Mr. McKAY: Do you want me to keep refreshing your memory? Should I keep
singing it or...

GROSS: Oh, well, you don't need to.

Mr. McKAY: What if I want to? What if I insist on using...

GROSS: You're welcome. You're welcome. You're welcome.

My guest is Adam McKay, the director and co-writer of the new film
"Anchorman." We'll talk more after a break. This is FRESH AIR.

(Soundbite of music)

GROSS: Adam McKay is my guest and he directed and co-wrote the new movie
"Anchorman" which stars Will Ferrell as a local TV news anchor in the '70s.

Will Ferrell's so especially good at thinking that he's really smart and
attractive. And can you talk about that thing that he has? I mean, like
there's a great scene where it seems like he's exercising and he's just doing
it for show. And yet he does not have, you know, like a--one of those...

Mr. McKAY: Be very careful here, Terry. Be very careful.

GROSS: (Laughs) I mean, we see his body and...

Mr. McKAY: He has a wonderful...

GROSS: He has a wonderful body, right.

Mr. McKAY: He is. He's the--he's fantastic at playing those characters. I
always say that's why he's...

GROSS: What I would give for that body, yeah. Go ahead.

Mr. McKAY: He--I always say that's why his George Bush is so good. You know,
he's the master of playing the guy who's--as Hightower said, `Born on third
base and strutting around like he hit a triple.' And that's definitely Ron
Burgundy. You know, they really--you know, they're in this mid-market. I
always called the story a `medium-sized fish in a small pond' story. And they
just think they're ruling the globe. And, of course, he's got the mustache so
maybe he's not as wrong as we think.

GROSS: How did you start working together?

Mr. McKAY: We got hired together at "Saturday Night Live." We were hired on
the same day. So there was a group of five or six of us writers and cast that
were hired and we went out and got beers that night. And we all thought Will
was the most normal guy in the world. I mean, he sort of looks like--What's
his name?--Wayne Rogers from "M*A*S*H." And then when he started reading
scenes in the read-throughs, we're, like `Holy Lord, he's demented.' And
instantly the entire writing staff just, like, fell in love with him. So then
on top of it all, it turns out Will's a really, really great writer and so,
yeah, he and I just started sort of writing those strange kind of scenes they
always put at the end of the show, the last half an hour ones, together.

GROSS: Name a favorite--describe a favorite of yours.

Mr. McKAY: We did one that was Neil Diamond on VH-1's "Storytellers." And he
obviously played Neil Diamond. And every sto--that show works that you tell a
story behind the song and how the song was created. And every story for these
kind of pop Neil Diamond songs was the most horrific story you could imagine.
There were stories about, like, hit and runs and, like, you know, racism and,
you know, joining a militia. And then it would be like "Cracklin' Rosie" he
would play. And he uttered one of my favorite lines in the end of that scene,
which is, as he's sort of breaking down, he just yells, `I put clown makeup on
my penis.' And I said, `That's a gravestone quote, my friend.'

But, yeah, so we love to write those kind of crazy scenes. But then also we
did a lot of the Bush ...(unintelligible) the political pieces for "SNL" and a
lot of different things. I mean, Will kind of was in every type of scene on
that show.

GROSS: Can you describe what it was like to watch him work up his impression
of George W. Bush?

Mr. McKAY: It actually was a process. I remember the first time we put him
in a scene as Bush. It was--I think it was Clinton--it was Darrell doing
Clinton and Bush kind of busting in saying `I'm on your tail' kind of scene.
`Pretty soon this Oval Office is going to be mine.' And Will just kind of
played him like a frat guy. He didn't really do anything. He just kind of
came in with a beer and was pumping his fist a lot and the audience didn't
know that much about George W. Bush so they loved it and it was just a
beer-drinking, kind of frat guy thing. And then it was during the summer
break when Bush started sort of emerging, if that's the right description,
that Will really started watching him. And when he came back off the summer,
suddenly he had all these little, you know, affectations that Bush always uses
to sort of punctuate a serious and sincere moments.

And once he figured that out, that was kind of the whole impression, was, you
know, saying--making the word `freedom' last for seven seconds, you know,
`Freedom' you know and--yeah, amazing, though. It was always a freakish,
freakish impression; we could never believe it.

GROSS: Did Bush ever give you feedback?

Mr. McKAY: (Laughs) He actually would send us a turkey every Monday morning
with a bottle of champagne and just a note that says simply, `I love you.'
No, he...

GROSS: Oh, I thought that was generous.

Mr. McKAY: No. I know, actually, that's somewhat feasible, unfortunately.
The only feedback I ever heard was--I heard a story that--I had written a
sketch that was called `Palm Beach Nights' and it was a soap opera version of
the election, the recount scandal. And I had heard a story, it was, I think,
in The New York Times or something about how Bush came into his campaign
office and his entire staff was gathered around watching this sketch and with
Will playing Bush. And he got very angry and turned the TV off and told
everyone to scatter. And I was reading it going, `Wait a minute. That's my
sketch.' So that was the closest I had to feedback.

Later, Bush and the White House asked Will to come and pay a visit and, you
know, at the correspondents' Press Dinner and then I think later at the White
House. And Will felt it was a little weird as a comic playing a president to
go visit him, so he ended up not doing it. But that was the only other
interaction.

GROSS: You did a sketch with Will Ferrell that--I wouldn't call it--what's
the word I'm looking for?

Mr. McKAY: Good?

GROSS: Yeah. I wouldn't call it that. You did a sketch with Will Ferrell on
"Saturday Night Live" that is similar in some ways to "Anchorman." He and--I
can't--I think it was like the guest host--I'm not sure who it was
actually--play the anchors of a morning, local TV show, like one of those
local magazine TV shows. And they're, you know, cheerfully reading all these,
you know cheerful phrases from the TelePrompTer and then the TelePrompTer
breaks and...

Mr. McKAY: Oh, yeah.

GROSS: ...they don't know what to say. And then basically civilization ends
without the help of their TelePrompTer, you know.

Mr. McKAY: How do you remember that sketch? That's good. That was like one
of the first sketches I ever wrote for "SNL." It was called `Wake Up And
Smile.' And it was--David Alan Grier was the host. And, yeah, that was a
crazy sketch. That does have a little streak of Burgundy in it, absolutely,
as far as the PrompTer just being, you know, the golden tablet on which
everything is based. That was a crazy, crazy sketch. I think it ended with
Will as the co-host ripping the weatherman's head off.

GROSS: That's right.

Mr. McKAY: And saying, `Now his power be in me.'

GROSS: Yeah. I thought it was very "Lord of the Flies."

Mr. McKAY: That was exactly the reference we used in writing it, yeah.

GROSS: Right.

Mr. McKAY: Yeah.

GROSS: There's a certain type of male that you have satirized in some of your
sketches and certainly in "Anchorman." You know, like the frat brother kind
of guy who's, you know, not very bright, and is drinking a lot of beer, the
kind of guy who thinks he's, you know, incredibly smart and has a, you know,
absolutely perfect body, real Adonis. And, of course, you know, doesn't. And
there's this great thing in "Anchorman" where one of the reporters puts on
this cologne that he thinks is really, like, super great, and, of course...

Mr. McKAY: Sex Panther, I think you're referring to. Yeah.

GROSS: Yeah. Yes, yes.

Mr. McKAY: Yeah.

GROSS: But still--I mean, I figure you were probably never that guy and, if
you were, you wouldn't admit it on the show. But did you know--like when you
were in college, did you know guys who were like this?

Mr. McKAY: Well, you know, I went to Penn State for one year before I
transferred to Temple University in Philadelphia and at Penn State if you're
not in a fraternity, there's kind of nothing really going on for you. So I
actually tried to kind of assimilate into the frat world and could never
figure out why it never worked. And then finally a couple of years later, I
was like, `Oh, I'm so happy that didn't work.' So, I mean, there's a little
bit of us and Will actually was in a fraternity. There's a little bit of us
that kind of did some of this stuff. Like I remember buying Polo cologne when
I was like a sophomore in high school and putting on too much and, you know,
experimenting with cologne for like about a month and then realizing, `Wait a
minute. I'm never using cologne again for the rest of my life.'

You know, so I think part of it is that, yeah, we're sadly--we had our run-ins
with this world. One of my favorite stories is Will was actually in a
fraternity at USC. I was really surprised to hear this because we both like
to kind of make fun of that world, and he told me that, you know, he joined
just because he was new in college and stuff. And he said that one time he
got up at a meeting and in a very straight-faced way said to his entire frat
that perhaps they should go gay because it would save a lot of money as far as
their bills for parties. It would also cut down on liability issues with, you
know, sexual assault sort of cases in the fraternities and he said, and
`Ultimately, the main reason I want to do it is because this is about
brotherhood and I can't think of a better way to get closer than if we all
went gay.'

He said, you know, half the frat was really laughing and half of them were
like, `Who is this guy?' and kind of taking him seriously and so--yeah, I
think we're more in the world than--I wish I could be cool and say, `I always
laughed at this.' But, no, I tried cologne and tried hanging out at frats and
it--never quite fit. But I think that's part of the reason we also like to
laugh at it.

GROSS: My guest is Adam McKay, the director and co-writer of the new film
"Anchorman." He'll be back in the second half of the show.

I'm Terry Gross and this is FRESH AIR.

(Soundbite of "Carry On My Wayward Son")

KANSAS: (Singing) Carry on my wayward son, there'll be peace when you are
done. Lay your weary head to rest. Don't you cry no more.

(Announcements)

GROSS: Coming up, Adam McKay on his stage suicide. Also Jamal Oajani, the
producer of "Mosiac," a daily compilation of news reports from more than 15
Middle Eastern countries including Egypt, Israel, Saudi Arabia and Lebanon.
And book critic Maureen Corrigan reviews "An Unfinished Season" by Ward Just.

(Soundbite of music)

GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross back with Adam McKay, the director
and co-writer of "Anchorman," a new film satirizing local TV news shows of the
'70s. It stars Will Ferrell, who also co-wrote the film. McKay and Ferrell
first worked together on "Saturday Night Live," where McKay was head writer.

When you got to "Saturday Night Live," what year was it, and what was the era?

Mr. McKAY: It was 1995, and it was when they had the big changeover. They
kind of fired a lot of people; a lot of cast left, some writers left. It was
kind of the famous cover, I think, on New York Magazine: Saturday Night Dead.
And the ratings were dipping. So Lawrence(ph) sort of just cleaned house,
which is how, you know, scamps like myself were able to get in there. I was
at "Second City" performing and improvising, and they came in and they hired a
handful of us and they hired a handful of groundlings. But it was basically
an entirely new cast. I remember they had to have meetings for us, where they
would just tell us the most basic things like how to, you know, physically
write the sketch and hand it in, what bin to put it in. They would have to do
stuff like that for us because I think 95 percent of the staff had never
written for television before.

GROSS: Now you started off in "Second City" before getting to "Saturday Night
Live." "Second City" is famous for improv. Did you develop characters when
you were there that you would do?

Mr. McKAY: Yeah, we had some characters. I had a character I used to always
do--was the `You still gotta pay your taxes' character, which this guy Scott
Adist and I used to love to do. And it was basically Scott Adsit would play
an activist coming to my door, and he would ask me to sign a petition, a very
clear petition, about the neighborhood and how to help the neighborhood. And
I just kept saying things like, `You still gotta pay your taxes. You can't
fight City Hall,' and would never sign the petition, and that would be the
entire scene. And we would play that ad nauseam in improv sets for like 15
minutes because it made us laugh so hard.

But, basically, I was never a big character guy. When I auditioned for
"Saturday Night Live" it was as a performer. And they asked me to do
impressions and characters, and I knew I didn't really do impressions. And
people at "Second City" don't really do impressions. That's not really
considered that cool at that place for some reason. And so that's why I
brought scripts with me, and it was like, `I'd better get in as a writer,' and
thank God I did.

GROSS: Now I read that when you were--I guess it's when you were still with
"Second City" and you were living in Chicago, you advertised your own suicide.
And then what?

Mr. McKAY: (Laughs) I like saying, `And then what?' at the end of that. I
did. I was with a group called the Upright Citizens Brigade in Chicago, and
we did a lot of sort of improv sketch, kind of street-dealer prank kind of
stuff. I don't even know what you'd call it. And we did things like take the
whole audience back to my apartment and let them watch a scene of a fake
murder through my windows. We did a scene where Horatio Sanz, who's currently
at "Saturday Night Live," ended up getting arrested in the middle of Northen
Damon(ph)--he was leading a fake revolution towards City Hall. And we gave
the whole audience plastic guns and tepee torches(ph), and he ended up getting
arrested.

So sort of in the midst of that kind of work, I decided to advertise my own
suicide. And I had this really horrible 8-by-10 I had done for some agent in
an attempt to get commercial work of me with the cheesiest smile you'd ever
seen. And I just put it in the poster, and I just said, `On such and such
date, Adam McKay, age'--I think I was 27 or 24--`will kill himself; no joke.'
And we went and put it up everywhere. And for us, it obviously was a joke,
but some people were quite upset. So we ended up doing it. It was a huge
turnout.

And I actually got on top of a five-story building and came out and yelled
down to the crowd. And I had a CPR dummy that we had dressed in my exact
clothes, and I backed up and tossed it off the edge. And you could actually
hear the crowd go (gasps). (Laughs) And then we had a character playing the
Grim Reaper come out to claim me, and then my friends paid off the Grim
Reaper. And I came back to life, and we went back into the theater. And it
was great. It was the kind of stuff you could not do in New York or LA
because you would be arrested instantly, but somehow Chicago is slightly
spread out enough that you can get away with this stuff for like 10 minutes.

GROSS: I'm trying to figure out what I think of this--you know, whether I
think it's hysterically funny or just like so unfair to people who think that
somebody's really about to kill themselves.

Mr. McKAY: (Laughs) I don't think anyone really thought I was going to kill
myself. I mean, I had some people complain to me about it, and to me it
was--we were so clearly making fun of that, you know, sensationalistic thing.
That was the whole joke of it. We advertised it like it was a, you know,
five-day pass at Disney World to come see this guy kill himself. But, yeah, I
can't believe--I think for a second when they saw the dummy come over the
edge, there was a little flash of, `Wait a minute. Is he actually crazy?' So
yeah--yeah, I'm not sure how I feel about it either.

GROSS: Who showed up? Were they the Comedy Club kind of people, the "Second
City" people, or were they just people who read this because you'd put posters
up all over?

Mr. McKAY: You know, Chicago's an amazing city. It has one of the biggest
theater scenes in the entire country, I would even say even the world. They
have hundreds and hundreds of non-equity theaters there. And what's
incredible about Chicago is if you do a show, you can do it in the basement,
you can do it in your living room, critics will show up and review the show.
And if it gets good reviews, you will get crowds. It's a really sort of loyal
fan base there. So we had received some really good reviews for our shows
with the Upright Citizens Brigades, so by that time we had a regular
following, sort of, of what you said, of improvisers, college students and
just people who had read about us in the paper.

GROSS: So the people who showed up, for the most part, knew that this was
theater?

Mr. McKAY: Yes. Yes.

GROSS: Good. That's what I wasn't sure of.

Mr. McKAY: Oh, no, no, no, no. No, you didn't have like 400 people expecting
an execution. It was not that creepy.

GROSS: Good. And was the Action News there?

(Soundbite of laughter)

Mr. McKAY: I wish they had been. They would have--what would their line have
been? `And for one comic, it was not a very funny night.'

GROSS: (Laughs) That's right. That would have been it. Now your next movie
is going to be "Bewitched," yes, a screen version of the TV show?

Mr. McKAY: Yeah, I'm actually helping--I'm rewriting it with Nora and Delia
Ephron. But it was based--it's their original script.

GROSS: I see.

Mr. McKAY: I've just been working on it for the past three months. But,
yeah, so basically I guess that's my next movie.

GROSS: And Will Ferrell will star as the husband?

Mr. McKAY: He will. Yeah, he will play Darrin, and Nicole Kidman will play
Samantha. And actually the movie we're doing after that--we recently sold an
idea to Sony--is called "Talladega Nights." And it's Will as a stock car
racer, as a NASCAR racer, so we're going to go into that world.

GROSS: Is this a world you know anything about?

Mr. McKAY: Nope, not a single thing.

GROSS: Well, that makes you eminently qualified.

Mr. McKAY: Exactly. That's why I'm going to make a major motion picture
about it. No...

GROSS: Yeah. So what are you going to do to, like, find out?

Mr. McKAY: You know, I'm actually a sports fan, so I know something about
it. But, you know, I really kind of didn't want to do it. Will started doing
this character, this Ricky Bobby(ph), and I was like, `I don't want to spend
two years of my life with auto racing.' And the character's just so funny that
I was eventually like, `OK, let's do it.' So we're going to have fun with some
of the, you know, ancillary sort of characters that were like the--we're going
to have a Toby Keith character who's like that country singer who sings
incredibly jingoistic songs like `Let's Blow Up Europe.' And, you know, we're
going to kind of do what we did with "Anchorman" as far as having, like, an
ensemble. And it's cer--I kind of am excited that it's a world that I don't
know a lot about. I mean, that could also be a lot of--be fun to do.

GROSS: Well, thanks so much for talking with us.

Mr. McKAY: Oh, it was my pleasure.

GROSS: Adam McKay wrote and directed the new movie "Anchorman."

Coming up, the news as reported by networks through the Middle East. This is
FRESH AIR.

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Interview: Jamal Dajani discusses his program "Mosaic"
TERRY GROSS, host:

If you want to understand how people in the Middle East see America, our
foreign policy and the news in their part of the world, you might try watching
"Mosaic." It's a daily compilation of news from TV networks through the Middle
East, including Egypt, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Israel and the Palestinian
Authority. "Mosaic" is part of Link TV, a national satellite network
dedicated to offering a global perspective on the news. It can also be seen
on its Web site, linktv.com.

My guest, Jamal Dajani, produces "Mosaic" and is the director of Link TV's
Middle East programming. He's a Palestinian from Jerusalem who now lives in
San Francisco, where Link TV is headquartered. He was invited to produce the
show by David Michaelis, an Israeli broadcaster who co-founded Link TV.

The news reports on "Mosaic" are produced by state-run networks as well as
independent cable networks and ones affiliated with political factions. I
asked Dajani about al-Manara TV, which is based in Beirut and is funded by the
militant Shiite Islamic group Hezbollah.

Mr. JAMAL DAJANI (Producer, "Mosaic"): I've traveled to 15 out of the 22
countries throughout the Middle East, and I can tell you al-Manara ranks third
or fourth, sometimes fifth, amongst the most-watched TV networks throughout
the Middle East. So for us to say, `Well, OK, it's funded by Hezbollah, it's
also funded by Iran--well, that's where they get their money from, and we
should dismiss it because it's also on the State Department terrorist
list'--you could do that, but then we'll be lying to the audience. We'll be
saying to the audience, `All the Arabs in the Middle East only watch Jordan TV
or Al-Jazeera, etc.,' and that's wrong. They watch Al-Jazeera, they watch
al-Arabiya, they watch al-Manara. People that come from conservative Islamic
homes, they pay close attention to al-Manara, and many of its news reports are
even watched more than Al-Jazeera. Al-Manara was practically the only network
that--coming with interviews within the city of Al Fallujah. Their reporters
were the only reporters that felt safe and were given cart blanche to
interview what they deemed as the resistance fighters. So it adds another
dimension and an important dimension to the reporting.

GROSS: I'd like you to choose a story and compare how different Arab networks
covered it.

Mr. DAJANI: Wow. I have tons of stories. I mean, this is the crazy thing.
But we can go--maybe let's pick up, you know, Saddam's trial--I mean, the way
it aired here and the way it was presented here. Now you're bringing, you
know, this criminal into trial. This is very new. It was a watershed event
in the Middle East. I mean, in a lot of sense there was buildup for it, but
people were really baffled. They have never, ever seen a live trial on
television and especially to have head of state being brought on trial. So if
you look at the two stories, how it was reported here with ease and just
excitement and getting this media frenzy, in the Middle East, first, you have
to remove the layer of uncertainty and surprise. It was a major surprise. It
was--people were commenting on the fact that there was a trial and that that
was indeed Saddam Hussein.

But then I think what happened were the intentions of the coalition and the
Iraqi government of winning support of the people backfired because I don't
think the people were used to seeing Saddam Hussein go on trial. And then he
did very well. He was defiant. He was challenging the judge. And all of
sudden the majority of people turned from looking at, `OK, now it's our day.
We're going to have'--I mean, `This is our time to get revenge from Saddam
Hussein and see him humiliated'--the reports started turning. It was a score
for Saddam Hussein that he actually did very well and embarrassed the
coalition. So if you compare that with how the story was reported on US
networks, you'll find it totally different.

GROSS: When the Abu Ghraib prison story broke, on American news shows and
news networks we saw a lot of the pictures of the prisoner who was shrouded
with, you know, wires attached to his body. We saw pictures of naked soldiers
stacked on top of each other. We saw a picture of a soldier being threatened
with a dog. Were these pictures shown on Arab TV, and were they shown as
frequently as we saw them here? Were they discussed? Like, if they were
shown what was said about them, and how were they used?

Mr. DAJANI: I mean, you know, they were shown, I mean, over and over, I mean,
maybe even more than they were shown here. I mean, the story lasted much
longer. The importance of the story, I mean, still keeps coming back and
being referred to. And the pictures were very shocking. I mean, one thing I
want to just say: I heard a lot on US networks that, `Oh, this is more
humiliating because in the Islamic world, the Arab culture, to see the naked
bodies,' etc., etc.--I saw a lot of emphasis about that, which people in the
Middle East refer to as an Orientalist way of thinking and meaning that, `Do
you think someone from the Middle East or from China or Tibet will be less
humiliated to be exposed naked than because of cultural difference?' And this
is what was emphasized somewhat here through the pundits; that just because
the Muslims are not used to seeing this or the Arabs, it must be a more
humiliating experience. I'm sorry to say it is a humiliating experience,
period.

GROSS: Can you contrast how the beheadings have been covered by different
Arab networks whose reports you broadcast on "Mosaic"? I'm wondering if, for
example, they show as frequently as we see on American TV the videos that the
terrorists release of the terrorists standing behind the men who are being
held captive, sometimes holding swords. And sometimes the hostages are
pleading for their lives; sometimes they're trying to be as stoic as possible.
Have those videos been shown a lot, and if so, what kind of commentary or
analysis accompanies them?

Mr. DAJANI: Well, you know, I've been very critical about these videos. I've
been critical of both Arab media and American media because I feel that both
sectors, in the Middle East and in the United States, are now being controlled
by these terrorists. They have been manipulating because their whole
intention is to drive fear, to shock the world, to draw attention to whatever
they're doing and, in a sense, using it as a recruitment tool to attract other
sick heads to their particular cause.

And, yes, in the Middle East I would say initially there was an overfrenzied
reaction of airing these videos over and over and over again, which, sadly I
have to say, American media copied that because most of these tapes were
released to Al-Jazeera or al-Arabiya. And we have seen--you know, I myself
watched the gruesome scene of the beheading. We never aired that; we chose
not to air that. I saw the one on the Web site. I saw the recent--another
beheading of Mr. Johnson. And I don't know if even I feel good about
describing the scene I watched on one of the TV networks there. It was very
gruesome, was very gruesome, and very grisly. And many of the Arab networks
started realizing later on they should stop showing this.

GROSS: Well, how many of the Arab networks actually showed the beheading?

Mr. DAJANI: The actual beheadings, none.

GROSS: None. OK.

Mr. DAJANI: One--no, no. One network, though, showed the head of Mr. Johnson
actually put on his back as the torso lies dead. And that was really
shocking.

GROSS: You know, a lot of people say that ever since Al-Jazeera went on the
air that the state-run broadcasting companies have had their power threatened
because people would much rather hear--get their news from Al-Jazeera. How
true do you think that is, that the state-run TV networks have lost viewers or
lost credibility?

Mr. DAJANI: Al-Jazeera created a new phenomenon. It has created pluralism on
satellite or pluralism on the air, but it did not do so underground. I mean,
it's totally different what happens on the air and what happens on the ground.
And, yes, state-run television was boring like heck. I mean, you'd spend the
first 10, 15 minutes listening to reports about his royal highness meeting
this prime minister and the princes met someone else and covering the boring
events of the state. And then towards the end you will hear some newsworthy
story or an international report. Al-Jazeera changed that. So Al-Jazeera
changed that entire concept of news-watching; that they automatically go into
the most relevant, important story. This did not happen, and the
state-controlled networks found themselves losing audience very fast. And
they're losing audience because, remember, before, most television was
terrestrial television. So the satellite created a new revolution that the
government could not control...

GROSS: I'd like...

Mr. DAJANI: ...which brings me...

GROSS: I'm sorry. Oh, go ahead.

Mr. DAJANI: I just wanted to add one more point, which brings me to the
point that the US spent $102 million launching its own satellite, what they
deemed the Middle East propaganda machine, in El-Hora(ph) and other networks
from Iraq, basically, to do the opposite is to go and invade the airwaves of
the Arab world.

GROSS: Have you tried to get access to El-Hora reports, so that you can
include them in your program "Mosaic"?

Mr. DAJANI: I actually did a program about it. We did a program that I went
to Egypt and I recorded El-Hora in Egypt because the US does not have the
signal available. It's a one-way street. It is meant to be broadcast over
the Middle East. You cannot pick it up in the United States. And I put an
official request from the head of the station to see if we can get access to
it, and they said they're going to have to consult with their attorneys. and
to this day they haven't gotten back to us. So what I did, I went to Egypt,
recorded it, traveled in Cairo, traveled to Luxor in the south and Aswan and
spoke to journalists, businessmen, students, people on the street to get their
opinion. And I found it very interesting what people thought. They did not
have good thoughts about El-Hora, and that's why I feel that it is doomed to
fail.

GROSS: Jamal Dajani produces "Mosaic," a daily compilation of news reports
from TV networks through the Middle East. It can be seen on the satellite
network Link TV or on their Web site, linktv.com.

Coming up, Maureen Corrigan reviews a new novel by Ward Just. This is FRESH
AIR.

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Review: Ward Just's new novel, "An Unfinished Season"
TERRY GROSS, host:

Novelist Ward Just is known for ambitiously weaving American history and
politics into his fiction. His last novel, "Echo House," was a finalist for
the National Book Award. He just published a new novel called "An Unfinished
Season" set in Chicago during the Eisenhower years. Book critic Maureen
Corrigan has a review.

MAUREEN CORRIGAN reporting:

Ward Just's latest novel, "An Unfinished Season," is one of those books that
gets smarter the more you think about it. As the title suggests, there's
unfinished business left in the wake of this tale, lots of crucial, unanswered
questions we're invited to ruminate on. One reason among many why Ward Just
is celebrated as a master novelist is that he so deftly calibrates just how
much silence, how much blank space he can get away with on each page.
Consequently, instead of losing his readers in a white-out of frustration,
Just keeps us tethered to his stories by what he chooses to tell us and by our
own pesky curiosity about what he doesn't.

Even from its first paragraphs, "An Unfinished Season" announces itself to be
more than just a classic coming-of-age story. Such stories don't usually
feature references to strike-breakers and the House Un-American Activities
Committee or walk-on appearances by Adlai Stevenson and Marlon Brando. Since
Just is one of our pre-eminent literary chroniclers of American social and
political history, the main character's awakening into adulthood takes place
happily within a context larger than his own sweaty experiences.

Our narrator's name is Wilson Raven, called Wils. He's 19 and he's learning
some hard facts of adult life as it's lived in an affluent exurb of Chicago,
circa 1950. Wil's father, Teddy, owns a printing plant, and he's begun toting
around a long-barreled Colt .22 concealed in a duffel bag because of a strike
at his plant. Teddy has retaliated by hiring goons to battle what he regards
as the `Communist-infiltrated union.' Wils himself is encountering a milder
form of class warfare in his summer job. Through the influence of one of his
father's golfing buddies, Wils has been hired as a copyboy on a down and dirty
Chicago tabloid. The old newspapermen there take out their contempt for the
ruling class on college-bound Wils.

By night, though, Wils leads another life. He regularly dons a tuxedo and
dances attendants at the debutante balls that flicker like fireflies on
Chicago's North Shore. It's at one of these balls that he meets a girl named
Aurora. She's a kind of Dorothy Parker(ph) in training. For instance, she
comments that her mother's bombastic new husband clearly feels that `no
silence is so golden that a word from him would not improve.' Wils is smitten
by Aurora's tartness, but he seems even more enthralled by Aurora's father,
Jack, a psychiatrist with a coiled manner. Over the course of the summer both
father and daughter give Wils a crash course in manhood.

You probably think I'm talking about sex, and in part I am. But what's so
striking about "An Unfinished Season" is that Wils' coming-of-age is not
brought about primarily by sex or the other subversive elements, like jazz and
progressive politics, that breach the walls of his sheltered upbringing.
Instead, the determining blow to Wils' innocence arrives in the form of a
horrific memory from World War II, a memory that haunts Aurora's father, who's
a veteran, and that's in turn passed on to Wils.

What "An Unfinished Season" dramatizes so vividly is the epiphany of how we
all live in multiple historical periods at once. Wils' father inhabits the
rough Illinois farmland of his own turn-of-the-century boyhood even as he's
presently enjoying the life of a gentleman's squire at his country club.
Aurora's father is still fighting the war in the jungles of the Philippines
even as he's simultaneously analyzing psychiatric patients in his consulting
room. And Wils, as we learn from the frame of this retrospective story, is
suspended in the summer of 1950 and vague, secondhand nightmares of World War
II even as he goes on to an adult career as a mediator for the UN.

Historical memory is a disruptive, not a unifying, force in Just's novel.
It's not a builder of community, as for instance it's so much seemed to be
this past Memorial Day weekend here on the Mall in Washington, DC, at the
dedication of the World War II Memorial. Instead, Just's characters are
sealed up inside their own distinct time machines, jarred harshly against the
thin walls of memory and expectation that separate them from other anxious
travelers.

GROSS: Maureen Corrigan teaches literature at Georgetown University. She
reviewed "An Unfinished Season" by Ward Just.

(Credits)

GROSS: I'm Terry Gross.
Transcripts are created on a rush deadline, and accuracy and availability may vary. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Please be aware that the authoritative record of Fresh Air interviews and reviews are the audio recordings of each segment.