'Middle Brother': Hand-Clapping Foot-Stompers

*** TRANSCRIPTION COMPANY BOUNDARY ***
..DATE:
20110328
..PGRM:
Fresh Air
..TIME:
12:00-13:00 PM
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NPR
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Timothy Olyphant: 'Justified' In Laying Down The Law

TERRY GROSS, host:

This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross.

My guest, Timothy Olyphant, stars in the FX series "Justified" as Deputy U.S.
Marshal Raylan Givens. In the HBO series "Deadwood," he starred as Seth
Bullock, the sheriff of a lawless mining town. He was also in the films "60
Seconds" and "Live Free or Die Hard."

"Justified" is based on several stories by Elmore Leonard. Last year, in the
series premiere, Raylan Givens was a deputy U.S. Marshal based in Miami, but
after forcing a drug dealer into a showdown and then shooting him, Givens was
exiled to his hometown in Harlan County, Kentucky, where he continues to be
based this season.

Because it's home, he knows a lot of the people, including some of the people
he ends up going after, like the white supremacists, the meth makers and the
Oxy dealers.

Let's start with a scene from "Justified"'s current season, its second.
Olyphant's character, Raylan Givens, is pursuing a sex offender and catches up
with him at a gas station. While acting like he's filling up his car, Givens
takes the gas hose, aims it at the suspect, drenching him in gasoline. The sex
offender pulls out his gun, aims it at Givens, and Givens warns him it would be
unwise to fire the weapon.

(Soundbite of television program, "Justified")

Mr. BILLY MILLER (Actor): (as James Earl Dean) What the hell? That's it now.

Mr. TIMOTHY OLYPHANT (Actor): (as Raylan Givens) Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm just
gonna ask you one question: Do you know how a firearm works?

Mr. MILLER: (as James Earl Dean) What?

Mr. OLYPHANT: (as Givens) The key word in firearm is fire. When the pin hits
the cap, it makes the charge explode, meaning there's a spark, which should be
of some concern to a man soaked in gasoline.

Mr. MILLER: as Dean) That's (BEEP). That spark's so far away from the gasoline.

Mr. OLYPHANT: (as Givens) You didn't finish school, did you, Mr. Dean? It's not
the liquid that burns, it's the fumes. Now, look, normally, I would've just
shot you myself the second you pulled, but I am doing my level best to avoid
the paperwork and the self-recrimination that comes with it. The lord knows
you're the kind that makes it worth it more.

Come on, Jimmy, can't we just try to end this without you turning yourself into
the human torch?

GROSS: That's Billy Miller, along with my guest, Timothy Olyphant, in a scene
from "Justified." Timothy Olyphant, welcome to FRESH AIR, pleasure to have you
here.

Mr. OLYPHANT: It's a pleasure being here. Thanks, Terry.

GROSS: So I thought of this scene just the other day, when I was filling up my
car with gas, and it overflowed onto my shoes.

Mr. OLYPHANT: Uh-oh.

GROSS: And I was wondering: Is it true that it's not the liquid, it's the fumes
that catch on fire?

Mr. OLYPHANT: It is the fumes.

GROSS: So that was truth that you were speaking?

Mr. OLYPHANT: You know, I had an electrician over at my house the other day
telling me about my generator, saying if you ever are using your generator,
should there be an emergency, and it runs out of gas, don't just fill it back
up with gas because it's hot, and the fumes can catch on fire, and you have a
big problem.

GROSS: Oh, okay.

Mr. OLYPHANT: And I thought: You know what? I should've known that because I
believe I said that on my television show.

(Soundbite of laughter)

Mr. OLYPHANT: That it's the fumes.

GROSS: How would you describe your character, Raylan Givens?

Mr. OLYPHANT: I'd try not to. You know, he's out there trying to make a living.
You know, the thing that's very attractive about the characters; this sort of,
you know, the moral code of it all, you know, the - you know, I always go back
to that scene in our first episode that came from the short story where, you
know, Raylan told a guy that you don't walk into someone's house unless you're
invited. And at the same time, he gave somebody 24 hours to get out of town or
he'd kill them.

And that to me is - that to me kind of says everything you need to know about
the guy.

GROSS: Now, when you're dealing with a villain of any sort on the show, you're
not only great with the, you know, the witty retort, you also have this
incredible ability with your eyes to stare the person down, do not blink - to
literally not blink, or to stare in disbelief when they say something to you
that you're going to try to not acknowledge how inappropriate it is.

So do you think of your eyes as being one of your tools? And how conscious are
you of how you use your eyes when playing a character who literally does start
people down?

Mr. OLYPHANT: I try not to be conscious of any of it. When usually, that's not
a good place to be. If I'm really aware of what I'm doing, it's not good.

I more or less try to make the other person do all the work, and I'm really
just trusting that process, you know.

GROSS: What does that mean, you're trying to get the other person to do all the
work?

Mr. OLYPHANT: Well, once somebody calls action, you know, the place to be for
me is out of my head. You know, that's the last place I want to be. So you're
just working off the other person. You're just working off of them. You're -
whatever you're doing, you're doing for them, because of them, you know. It's
always about the other.

And so everything should come from that, and then, you know, when they - when
someone calls cut, if I can remember everything the other person did, then I'm
fine. Does that make sense?

GROSS: I think so. What did you do...?

(Soundbite of laughter)

Mr. OLYPHANT: Come on, you know what I'm saying. Right? If I'm aware of
everything I did, then it's - then I'm not doing - I'm not very good at my job.

GROSS: Right.

Mr. OLYPHANT: But if I can remember everything Margo did, if I'm in a scene
with Margot, and when they call cut, I think to myself oh, when you did that
thing with there, where you put that down, you didn't do that before; if I
caught those moments, then I'm ready to move on. You know what I mean?

GROSS: What did you do to get to know your character or the region that
"Justified" is set in, which is Harlan County, Kentucky?

Mr. OLYPHANT: Well, I read a lot. I mean, I read - first and foremost, I read
the Elmore books. You know, we had a short story and two novels, and I read
them all many times and continue to kind of read them and comb through them.

And then since then, he's told me to check out a book called "Stinking Creek."
He said, you should read that. He said, it's something I read before I wrote
the story.

So I read those things. You know, I watched the documentary about Harlan, that
wonderful, famous documentary. I did...

GROSS: About coalminers in Harlan County. "Harlan County U.S.A."

Mr. OLYPHANT: Yeah, "Harlan County, U.S.A." I listened to it, actually, before
I watched it and then, you know, worked with the dialect coach. Well, I love
the dialect, and it was just so fun.

GROSS: What do you love about the dialect?

Mr. OLYPHANT: I don't know. Someone told me there's no difference between pin
and pen, there's just pin and pin. And that just cracks me up. I haven't heard
it before.

So I was like: There you go. There's something to sink your teeth into.

GROSS: So I think it's really important in a series to have a great opening
scene, which you had in "Justified." And I want to play that scene. So you're a
deputy U.S. federal marshal working in Miami at this point, and you've given a
guy from a drug cartel 24 hours to leave town.

With just a couple of minutes remaining in that deadline, you find him sitting
at a table in an oceanside hotel restaurant. You tell him he has two minutes
left to leave town. He invites you to eat with him. Then you remind him that
time is running out.

(Soundbite of television program, "Justified")

Mr. OLYPHANT: (as Givens) One minute.

Mr. PETER GREENE (as Thomas Buckley): (As character) A second ago, you said two
minutes. What's going on here?

Mr. OLYPHANT: (as Givens) Time flies, huh?

(Soundbite of laughter)

Mr. GREENE: (as Thomas Buckley) You, you're a character. I was telling my
friends this morning how yesterday you come to me, and: You don't get out of
town in 24 hours, I'm going to shoot you on sight. Come on, what is that? They
thought it was a joke. They started laughing.

Mr. OLYPHANT: (as Givens) You tell them about the man you killed or why you did
it? Because I found nothing funny in that.

(Soundbite of music)

Mr. GREENE: (as Buckley) Maybe I should've killed you, huh? Maybe I made a
mistake.

Mr. OLYPHANT: (as Givens) Well, we all have regrets.

Mr. GREENE: (as Buckley) Cut me a little slack here, okay? Does nothing count
that I let you live?

Mr. OLYPHANT: (as Givens) No, I'm giving you the same consideration right now.
You can get up and go, 30 seconds.

Mr. GREENE: (as Buckley) So, what are you gonna do? In front of all these
people, you're gonna pull out a gun and you're gonna shoot an unarmed man?

Mr. OLYPHANT: (as Givens) You're unarmed, huh?

Mr. GREENE: (as Buckley) Hey, you got eyes. You see a piece on me?

Mr. OLYPHANT: (as Givens) Twenty seconds.

Mr. GREENE: (as Buckley) Okay.

Mr. OLYPHANT: (as Givens) Ten.

Mr. GREENE: (as Buckley) You know what, seriously? You come, and you interrupt
my meal. You won't eat with me. This is bull (BEEP). This is supreme bull
(BEEP).

(Soundbite of three gunshots)

GROSS: So what was the opening scene from "Justified," which my guest, Timothy
Olyphant and Peter Greene.

Okay, so for our listeners who couldn't see that, the drug guy pulls his gun
first, but you're quicker, and you shoot him. Of course, in that scene, in
Miami, you're wearing your Stetson hat, your white Stetson hat, which you
almost always wear. Why is that so important to the character?

Mr. OLYPHANT: The hat?

GROSS: Uh-huh.

Mr. OLYPHANT: I'm not sure it is, you know, but it looks kind of cool. And, you
know, I think there's - you know, what I liked in the book was there was a
spirit of Raylan putting on the hat and oftentimes a blue suit because it
thought - he thought the occasion kind of called for it.

It felt a little bit like he was aware that it was a uniform. And I think he
thinks of himself as a bit of a - as an old-fashioned lawman. He likes to
compare himself to the men from back when.

And I think it was used really well in the books, and I think with the show,
you know, it's kind of - maybe it's a bit overused, but I think it's pretty
cool at the end of the day.

GROSS: I think it works. It makes the character look more iconic because he's
wearing it more in the Western tradition.

Mr. OLYPHANT: The hat's kind of cool. But, you know, every time I see Elmore,
he's like: Don't be afraid to lose the hat. You know, it's - a gust of wind
could pick up and just blow it away, and you'd never see it again.

GROSS: Is that good for you? Like, you don't have to hold on to it. Your
character can survive without the hat.

Mr. OLYPHANT: You know, what I liked about when he told me that, or what I took
from it, right or wrong, was the - I thought he was saying, you know, don't be
beholden to this thing that everybody's talking about. It's like - I think what
you're saying, I think that trust that the character and the stories and those
other things are, in the end of the day, more important than the silly hat.

GROSS: If you're just joining us, my guest is Timothy Olyphant, the star of the
FX series "Justified." He was also in the series "Damages" and was one of the
stars of the HBO series "Deadwood." Let's take a short break here, and then
we'll talk some more. This is FRESH AIR.

(Soundbite of music)

GROSS: My guest is Timothy Olyphant, and he plays a federal marshal in the FX
series "Justified." He also was one of the stars of the HBO series "Deadwood,"
a Western that was set in a really dirty mining town.

(Soundbite of laughter)

GROSS: You played a sheriff in Montana who like hangs a man and then leaves
town with his partner, with the intention of starting a hardware store in this
mining town, Deadwood, and ends up becoming the sheriff.

Mr. OLYPHANT: Yeah.

GROSS: And I'm thinking, like, who would want to go to this town to start a new
life? Like, of all the places you'd want to go to, why would go to this, like,
horrible, dirty mining town with all these, like, crude, filthy, nasty, violent
men there?

Mr. OLYPHANT: It was a good show.

(Soundbite of laughter)

Mr. OLYPHANT: That's why we went there, because we thought it would make good
television.

Yeah, I - you know, I don't know. I know that, you know, one of the wonderful
things about that whole show was those were real people that those characters
were based on, and that's what the guy did.

And I imagine that, you know, opportunity; it was an opportunity to go and make
a living and move west. So, I think for that character, he - you know, there
was a feeling that he was going to try to start over, walk away from this other
life.

GROSS: Get away from the violence.

Mr. OLYPHANT: Exactly.

(Soundbite of laughter)

GROSS: So how did you get the part on "Deadwood"?

Mr. OLYPHANT: Sometimes, people aren't as consciously aware of their decisions
as they should be. That I auditioned for. I met with - it started with a
meeting with David Milch, and Walter Hill was in the room, as well.

GROSS: David Milch was the creator of the series, and Walter Hill was the film
director who directed the first episode of "Deadwood."

Mr. OLYPHANT: Exactly, yes. So I went and met with David and sat down with
David and Walter. I really didn't say much. I kind of went in there with the
plan of I'd just listen and see if I could just fool these people into thinking
I was this guy. So David talked on and on. I just stared at him.

(Soundbite of laughter)

Mr. OLYPHANT: And it totally - it completely worked. You know, I was told
afterwards he was a bit nervous about the whole meeting and a bit intimidated
by it, and he wanted to know if I'd be interested in doing the show.

(Soundbite of laughter)

Mr. OLYPHANT: My wife and I got a good laugh out of the whole thing. But I did
go in and read for the executives at HBO. I went in and read what I think was
the opening scene of the first episode.

GROSS: I love what you said about the audition because your character in
"Deadwood" and your character in "Justified" are both so good at that
unblinking stare, that unbacking-down stare. And you did that in the audition.
That's great.

Mr. OLYPHANT: Yeah, and to be quite honest with you, it's not something I think
I've - I think I'm better at it at this point in my life than I was. But I've
always sort of admired and respected one's ability to be comfortable with other
people's discomfort or, you know, their being comfortable making other people
uncomfortable.

GROSS: So what did you have to learn for the role, like riding a horse? Did you
know how to do that?

Mr. OLYPHANT: For "Deadwood," yeah, I did have to learn to ride. Milch had all
these rodeo guys I think on his personal payroll. They were around. Some of
them became characters on the show, guys who were bull riders and rode broncos
in the '70s and the '80s. And I think he met one of them and thought, well,
this is the kind of guy that would inhabit a town like Deadwood.

And so he invited that guy to go get a - round up a bunch of his buddies and
move them out to California and just hang out. And I learned - those are the
guys that would take me riding. So I'd go ride with all these ex-rodeo dudes
around the hills of - you know, out there by Griffith Park and stuff.

And I learned how to ride, and I learned a lot of really bad jokes. That was
the deal. It was kind of fun.

GROSS: What was the set for "Deadwood" like? Because the town that "Deadwood"
is set in is just so grimy, like, ugly, mean.

Mr. OLYPHANT: I love that set. I mean, that was one of the greatest sets I've
ever been on. The whole thing was just very alive. I mean, it was just - it was
a working set. I mean, unlike - you know, it's very hard to come across that
kind of a situation, where the fact that it was such a self-contained world and
that everything was available at our disposal really at any given moment, it
allowed David to - it's not fair to say he was winging it. I often use that
word.

But, I mean, he's such the - he's writing everything at the last minute. He's
writing everything the day before. You know, you're getting your pages, you
know, 5 p.m., 6 p.m., you're getting pages, lots of them, that will shoot the
following day.

You know, it wasn't uncommon for him to be on the set in a rehearsal and, you
know, he'd, you know, all of a sudden ask: You know, are the Chinese here? Do
we have any Chi - it would be great if we had some Chinese for this scene.

And then, you know, the ADs are scrambling on the phone: David, we can have the
Chinese here within the next three hours. Perfect. Do we have anything else we
can shoot until then? Yes, you know, we could shoot the scene down at Bullock's
house. Anna will be here in a few minutes. Perfect. Let's flip that, and we're
going to go down the street and shoot that scene now. I'm going to rewrite this
scene. It'll be ready in three hours when the Chinese arrive.

And, you know, it felt like a perfect storm of - the set allowed him to kind of
work that way without the challenges of being - you know, we don't have this on
"Justified." On "Justified," we're driving all around Southern California
trying to find a location that we can call Kentucky. And it makes it much more
difficult every time you kind of throw a wrench into things.

GROSS: My guest, Timothy Olyphant, stars in the FX series "Justified" as Deputy
U.S. Marshal Raylan Givens, and he played Sheriff Seth Bullock in the HBO
series "Deadwood." He'll be back in the second half of the show. I'm Terry
Gross, and this is FRESH AIR.

(Soundbite of music)

This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross back with actor Timothy Olyphant. He plays
Deputy U.S. Marshal Raylan Givens in the FX series "Justified." When we left
off, we were talking about starring in the series "Deadwood," which ran on HBO
from 2004 to 2006. He played Seth Bullock, the sheriff of a lawless mining town
in South Dakota in the 1870s.

Let's hear a scene from "Deadwood," and this is a scene with you and Ian
McShane. He played Al Swearangen, who ran a saloon and brothel and was one of
the meanest, most unethical man you'd ever want to meet. So in this scene
you're talking to Swearangen and you're talking about a widow's claim to a gold
mine. You, Sheriff Bullock, suspect that Swearangen is going to try to cheat
her out of her claim. So you start the conversation.

(Soundbite of HBO's, "Deadwood")

Mr. OLYPHANT: (as Seth Bullock) I'm here to talk about Mrs. Garrett.

Mr. IAN MCSHANE (Actor): (as Al Swearengen) Who planted her husband this
morning?

Mr. OLYPHANT: (as Seth Bullock) I wrote a man about coming to assay her claim
but he can't make it.

Mr. MCSHANE: (as Al Swearengen) Plenty of local alternatives.

Mr. OLYPHANT: (as Seth Bullock) I want you to nominate someone.

Mr. MCSHANE: (as Al Swearengen) Do you?

Mr. OLYPHANT: (as Seth Bullock) So, if any way his work was mistaken, I'd be
coming after you.

Mr. MCSHANE: (as Al Swearengen) You would?

Mr. OLYPHANT: (as Seth Bullock) Yeah.

Mr. MCSHANE: (as Al Swearengen) Well, since I got nothing to do with the
(bleep) venture, what if I decline to make the (bleep) recommendation?

Mr. OLYPHANT: (as Seth Bullock) Then you better hope whoever I find does his
job right because I'm still holding you accountable.

Mr. MCSHANE: (as Al Swearengen) I ain't involved. E.B. Farnum offered on her
claim.

Mr. OLYPHANT: (as Seth Bullock) Farnum's your water boy, and I know what you've
been trying to do to her.

Mr. MCSHANE: (as Al Swearengen) So, here you come in, all nobility, threatening
me with a dire result if the property that widow's husband thought worthless
and wanted sold turns out not to be pinched down.

Mr. OLYPHANT: (as Seth Bullock) You and I know how it is, Mr. Swearengen.

Mr. MCSHANE: (as Al Swearengen) How what is?

Mr. OLYPHANT: (as Seth Bullock) She gets a square shake or I come for you.

Mr. MCSHANE: (as Al Swearengen) What if I come for you? You ready for that?

Mr. OLYPHANT: (as Seth Bullock) I guess I better be.

Mr. MCSHANE: (as Al Swearengen) Then close your (bleep) store because being
ready for me will take care of your waking hours and you better have someone to
hand the task off to when you close your (bleep) eyes.

(Soundbite of music)

Mr. OLYPHANT: (as Seth Bullock) We understand each other.

GROSS: Well, one of the many great scenes from "Deadwood." Timothy Olyphant, my
quest, along with Ian McShane.

It must've been fun working opposite Ian McShane. I mean, he played such a
really hot character. Like he's really overheated all the time and you're like
so cool, so you were great foils for each other. Can you talk a little bit
about working off of him in scenes like that?

Mr. OLYPHANT: It was amazing. He was amazing. Just listening to that I'm
reminded how much I learned on that set. It's really striking actually
listening to it. As far as Ian's concerned, I just love him. He was great to
work with. He's a good friend and I really took so much away from that
experience. He was so at ease and so relaxed and such a professional that he,
you know, you saw the - he's like a little kid, you know, playing with the
props and playing with the language and it was a, you know, he never lost the
sense of fun - the fun of it all.

I feel like it was, I wasn't operating at that same level. I don't think I was.
I think I was overwhelmed or going through the motions in a way that I was less
committed - fully committed – to the work or to what, you know, relying on, you
know, people telling me what – thinking about what I'm supposed to do or what's
expected or, and so in a way you're just battling fear. You know, you're acting
defensively, you know. And I think that's the thing now that I can, you know,
I've learned from those guys.

GROSS: One of the things that became famous about "Deadwood" was the number of
obscenities and the amount of blasphemous language that was used incessantly...

(Soundbite of laughter)

GROSS: ...on the show.

Mr. OLYPHANT: Mm-hmm.

GROSS: Did you and say Ian McShane in scenes opposite each other ever start
laughing because the language was just so overloaded?

Mr. OLYPHANT: I mean you tend to, I mean you tend to crack up every time
someone hands you the new pages. I mean the first season I remember daily
running into, you know, your fellow actors and stuff and saying, did you read
that?

(Soundbite of laughter)

Mr. OLYPHANT: You know, I mean are they really going to let us shoot that? I
mean I never read anything like it before in my life. And you would read
something and just crack up because how far it pushed the boundaries of what
you thought was okay to do on television or you read it and you thought to
yourself, what am I talking about?

(Soundbite of laughter)

Mr. OLYPHANT: I don't understand any of this. You know, and you really had to
kind of wrap your head around something and then once you, you know, you just
have to kind of break it down and then you realize no, it's really quite simple
and quite perfect and it was so, it was really quite special.

GROSS: You know what I find interesting? There's so many actors now who are in
action films or maybe a Western like "Deadwood" or where so many actors have to
learn how to shoot a gun and carry a gun...

Mr. OLYPHANT: Mm-hmm.

GROSS: ...because they're playing cops or private eyes or bad guys or cowboys
or whatever. And I think it's just so odd, you know what I mean, that to be an
actor now, unless you're in like a little independent film - and even in some
of those - you're going to have to learn how to shoot. That's true of you,
right?

Mr. OLYPHANT: Well, yeah. Of course, it is. Why is that odd? Is that not what
that's been making drama go for – isn't that what everything's always been
about? I mean, right, wasn't – I mean what were they doing in the theater a
hundred years ago? They were learning how to sword fight and stuff, weren't
they? I mean...

GROSS: Absolutely. Yeah.

Mr. OLYPHANT: I mean this is the stuff that we want to kind of play out and try
to get a handle on.

GROSS: So being around guns a lot in your acting career, has that made you
think about guns in real life at all?

Mr. OLYPHANT: I don't feel it's changed my point of view about them at all. I
more or less still feel the same. I'd rather not have them around and at the
same time, there's always moments where you think, I wish I had a gun.

GROSS: Do you think that?

Mr. OLYPHANT: Yeah, doesn't everybody think that?

GROSS: I don't think I think that.

(Soundbite of laughter)

Mr. OLYPHANT: Every now and then you don't think to yourself, I wish I had a
gun? You don't think to yourself like in some sort of - or if not a gun, aren't
there moments where you think – I don't know.

GROSS: I'm the kind of person who thinks I really wish I could defend my point
of view more forcefully or...

(Soundbite of laughter)

GROSS: I wish I could've told that person off. I wish – I don't usually feel
like I wish I had a gun.

Mr. OLYPHANT: Uh-huh. Well, I guess there lies the difference between you and
I. I think that, too.

(Soundbite of laughter)

Mr. OLYPHANT: Don't, I really am. I'm with you. I sometimes think I wish I
could have better represented my point of view more forcefully and whatnot. And
then I think and when that didn't work I wish I had a gun.

(Soundbite of laughter)

GROSS: Right. Okay.

Mr. OLYPHANT: Yeah.

GROSS: My guest is Timothy Olyphant. He stars in the FX series "Justified," and
he played Sheriff Seth Bullock in the HBO series "Deadwood."

We'll talk more after a break.

This is FRESH AIR.

(Soundbite of music)

GROSS: If you're just joining us, my guest is Timothy Olyphant, who is the star
of FX series "Justified," and he was one of the stars of the HBO series
"Deadwood."

GROSS: Okay. So I don't know how you're going to feel about me quoting this but
in the March 2011...

(Soundbite of laughter)

GROSS: You know it's coming. In the March 2011 edition of GQ - no, no it's
Esquire. Was it Esquire or GQ...

Mr. OLYPHANT: Yeah.

GROSS: ...that you were called...

Mr. OLYPHANT: I honestly don't know.

GROSS: You were called America's next top man crush. And I confess, I wasn't
really familiar with expression man crush, so I actually looked it up and it
said, when a straight idolizes another man but not sexually.

(Soundbite of laughter)

Mr. OLYPHANT: I'm not sure it deserves the word. But it's good that they gave
it a word. It seems like something - is Vince Vaughn, is he being credited for
that? It feels like something Vince Vaughn might have...

GROSS: Oh, might have originated? I don't know. I really don't know.

Mr. OLYPHANT: I don't know. Usually whenever I hear something like that I think
two things; it's like something that Vince Vaughn must've said offhandedly
somewhere. And two, some studio, if not three, have a film based on the title
that they're trying to develop.

GROSS: Right. Right. I think it's part of the whole like bromance vocabulary.

Mr. OLYPHANT: That's right. See there you go. Same thing.

GROSS: Exactly.

Mr. OLYPHANT: So the question was, how do I feel about that? Is that it? Is
that what you were wondering? Or...

GROSS: I don't think I even asked that.

Mr. OLYPHANT: ...are you just pointing out that it's there, that somebody wrote
it.

GROSS: I think I better just break it up. But you're right. How do you feel
about that?

Mr. OLYPHANT: It has nothing to do with me. That what I - that's the good news,
You know, those things are really at the ends of the day, it's not about me.

GROSS: So, like, when you were in high school, did you think of yourself as
good looking?

Mr. OLYPHANT: Did I think of myself as good looking? I thought I had a pretty
good shot, you know? That's what I think. I thought - I mean I think I more or
less went through high school trying to figure out if I could, you know, pick
up on that girl. And that one. And that one. And, you know, I thought, you
know, with the right grooming and I don't say anything too stupid, wear the
right pants, I've got a pretty good shot.

GROSS: Earlier in your career, you were supposed to be in a remake of the TV
series "77 Sunset Strip," which was a private eye series that ran from '58 to
'64, and one of the stars was Edd "Kookie" Byrnes, who had that novelty record,
"Kookie, Kookie Lend Me Your Comb."

(Soundbite of laughter)

GROSS: And Clint Eastwood was producing. It this supposed to be a movie or a TV
series?

Mr. OLYPHANT: No, this was my first job of any kind outside of lifeguarding.
You know, I moved to New York, I studied acting. My resume had a bunch of
things I made up. You know, scenes I did in class and said that I've done in
some regional theaters or something. And I went in a read for the late Phyllis
Huffman, who cast all of Clint Eastwood's movies and I got the job. It was for
the WB network - their first season. Warner Brothers was starting this new
network. Clint had - as I understood the story - Clint, you know, his
relationship with Warner Brothers is legendary, so he was going to produce this
show and I was going to be the kind of the Edd "Kookie" Byrnes-type character.

It was a tribute to the show. It wasn't a remake. Some guy - Jim Caviezal was
the star. He was the guy who moved out to L.A. and started a detective agency
and named it after his father's favorite television show, "77 Sunset Strip."

GROSS: Oh, I get it.

Mr. OLYPHANT: Maria Bello was in it.

GROSS: Uh-huh.

Mr. OLYPHANT: So, I flew out to L.A. to shoot. We sat down at the table read. I
was looking for Clint everywhere. He's nowhere to be seen. So when we finished
the reading I asked, where's Clint, you know. They said he quit. Apparently,
you know, about three-four days of television network executives he pretty much
decided, ah, you guys go ahead without me. And so, that was it. But the pilot -
the show didn't get picked up.

GROSS: Let me back up a couple of steps here. You said you made up things on
your resume.

(Soundbite of laughter)

Mr. OLYPHANT: Yeah.

GROSS: You took things you did in your acting class and made class and made it
seem like you've did them on stage in regional theater. Was there a little
voice in your head thinking, maybe that's unethical, but maybe it'll get me a
job?

Mr. OLYPHANT: Are you kidding? Where am I supposed to - hand in a resume that
just says, Timothy Olyphant, actor. Experience, none. I mean, I was like, come
on. I was 20-something years old, I'm looking for work. People aren't - you
know, you got to make them feel a little comfortable. I've done something.

GROSS: Were you afraid that someone would know, like, the New York theater
scene and the regional theater scene so well, and they'd look at your resume
and say, no, you didn't?

Mr. OLYPHANT: If I'm not mistaken, I have a - now I know I'm not mistaken,
'cause I have the book at home. My first play of any kind was an off-Broadway
production of a play called "The Monogamist," and every year this Theater World
magazine in New York gives awards for outstanding debut performances, for Off-
Broadway and Broadway. And I was given an award for my performance in "The
Monogamist." And in the book - they issue a book every year with the people who
won the awards that year and all the previous years for on and on and on. The
names are amazing. I mean it's I've gone, I've looked at them. It's just
incredible company of people that have been given these awards. And in there is
- it says a bunch of plays that I had been in previously that I've never been
in in my life, in the book.

(Soundbite of laughter)

Mr. OLYPHANT: But you know, that's - I mean, I don't know what they're doing
these days, but that's what people did, you just, you know, you've got to put
something on there.

GROSS: So I want to end with a clip from "The Office," because you were on a
couple of episodes of that and...

Mr. OLYPHANT: I was. I had so much fun on that show.

GROSS: Yeah, it must be a lot of fun to work on that show. Did they call you?

Mr. OLYPHANT: Yes, that's exactly what happened. Mindy Kaling...

GROSS: She's writer, producer and one of the stars.

Mr. OLYPHANT: Exactly. Exactly. I was about to say that's just - she's got way
too much authority over there. That's quite the - I guess that's what I've
tried to do on my show as well, so I shouldn't call her out on that. I'd run
into her in public on occasion and she said, oh, just really want to have you
on the show. And I remember, I think every time I saw her I'd say, well, what's
the hold-up?

(Soundbite of laughter)

Mr. OLYPHANT: You know, I'm not the hold up. I'm free Tuesday. But anyway, this
went on for years and then, I don't know, a few months ago I got a call saying
they've got this part. You know, do you want to do it? I said yeah.

GROSS: So let's end with the scene. You played Danny Cordray...

Mr. OLYPHANT: Yeah.

GROSS: ...who's a good-looking paper salesman who's stealing clients from the
Dunder Mifflin paper company. So...

Mr. OLYPHANT: Yeah.

GROSS: ...Michael, Dwight and Jim concoct a scheme to observe your sales
techniques. They create a fake company. They put a fake company sign on their
office door...

Mr. OLYPHANT: Yeah.

GROSS: ...and invite you in to discuss selling paper to them, and that way they
figure they can watch your techniques. And they have Meredith posing as a
company representative. So at this point, Michael, played by Steve Carell, is
talking with you and Jim and Dwight are observing the interactions next door
through a surveillance camera, and the scheme has just come apart. So you're
kind of onto them and Michael Scott is apologizing to you.

And we're going to end our interview here with the scene, so I just want to
thank you so much for talking with us.

Mr. OLYPHANT: It's was a pleasure. Thank you for having me.

GROSS: A great pleasure. And Timothy Olyphant stars on the FX series
"Justified." And here's the scene from "The Office," starting with Steve
Carell.

(Soundbite of NBC's "The Office")

Mr. STEVE CARELL (Actor): (as Michael Scott) I owe you a most sincere and
humble apology. We were trying to watch you to see your sales technique so we
could stop losing so many clients to you.

Mr. OLYPHANT: (as Danny Cordray) Watch from where?

Mr. CARELL: (as Michael Scott) A surveillance room next to this one.

Mr. OLYPHANT: (as Danny Cordray) Okay, so you set up this fake company, then
you hire this homeless woman to impersonate an executive to spy on me so that
you could copy my sales technique?

Mr. CARELL: (as Michael Scott) Yes. And it's the sincerest form of flattery.

Mr. OLYPHANT: (as Danny Cordray) Or crazy.

Mr. CARELL: (as Michael Scott) Well...

Mr. OLYPHANT: (as Danny Cordray) I'm going to go.

Mr. CARELL: (as Michael Scott) Okay. You know what, it wasn't just me. Jim and
Dwight are behind that wall in the surveillance room and it was their plan as
well.

Mr. KURT SCHRUTE (Actor): (as Dwight): No.

Mr. JOHN KRASINSKI (Actor): (as Jim) No, no, no, no.

Mr. OLYPHANT: (as Danny Cordray) Oh, well then, yeah. All right. Hey.

(Soundbite of knocking on wall)

Mr. OLYPHANT: (as Danny Cordray) Good luck, guys. Seems like you got a great
operation here.

Mr. CARELL: (as Michael Scott) No, we don't. Here's – here is my point. Danny,
listen, you have to understand that we are not normally like this. We just - we
wanted to know your tricks. We wanted...

Mr. OLYPHANT: (as Danny Cordray) What do you mean, tricks? There's no tricks,
man. I'm just a good salesman. You want to copy that? You can't copy that.

Mr. CARELL: (as Michael Scott) You are, you are. You are. Stop it, stop it.
Stop. You are a good salesman. And because of that, I want you to work for me.

Mr. OLYPHANT: (as Danny Cordray) Sure. You seem like a fun, professional guy.

Mr. CARELL: (as Michael Scott) So you will?

Mr. OLYPHANT: (as Danny Cordray) No.

Mr. CARELL: (as Michael Scott) Hold it, hold it. Hold on, hold on. Wait, wait,
wait.

GROSS: That's Timothy Olyphant with Steve Carell in a scene from "The Office."
Olyphant now stars in the series "Justified," which is shown on FX Wednesday
nights.

Coming up, rock critic Ken Tucker reviews the new album by Middle Brother of
songs that reach across decades of rock, folk and country music.

This is FRESH AIR.
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'Middle Brother': Hand-Clapping Foot-Stompers

TERRY GROSS, host:

Middle Brother is a trio formed by members of other bands - John McCauley from
Deer Tick, Taylor Goldsmith from Dawes, and Matthew Vasquez from Delta Spirit.
The three friends have put together a collection of songs that rock critic Ken
Tucker says reach across decades of rock, folk and country music.

(Soundbite of song, "Daydreaming")

MIDDLE BROTHER (Music Group): (Singing) A Bloody Mary afternoon, waste my time
out in the sun. Hum myself some melodies, maybe I can sing you one. Maybe I
could find...

KEN TUCKER: There's a singer-songwriter intimacy in many of the songs on Middle
Brother, as though John McCauley, Taylor Goldsmith and Matthew Vasquez were
sharing secrets and anecdotes and decided to set them to music and share them
with us. All three men belong to bands that trade on folk, blues and country
traditions; even their up-tempo songs are less rave-up rockers than hand-
clapping foot-stompers.

(Soundbite of song, "Mom and Dad")

MIDDLE BROTHER: (Singing) Stay hydrated from a double shot. Get my nourishment
from a punch in the gut. Never really felt I had the best of luck. I got a big
big mouth that just won't shut up.

Hop in the car turn the radio on. Out from the speakers a familiar song. Head
down the road start to hum along. I made it all the way home and left the TV
on.

But I'm going to learn to fly an airplane. And it's going to make my mama
proud. I'm going to get my dad to notice me, even if I have to fly it into the
ground. Ooh.

TUCKER: This being a group composed of thoughtful guys with guitars, there's a
certain amount of bad behavior to be chronicled - bouts of drunkenness,
hangovers, one-night stands, and a general air of doomstruck melancholy.
Sometimes it's maudlin, but more often, as on Matthew Vasquez's song "Theater,"
it can describe dreams with a precision that matches the sharp snap of the drum
beat.

(Soundbite of song, "Theater")

MIDDLE BROTHER: (Singing) I went to the theater but nobody came. It was just
silence after you played. Well, I learned my lesson, a soldier play on. Just
let it ring out until you are gone.

TUCKER: That vocal sounded a little Neil Young-y, didn't it? We shouldn't be
surprised. Middle Brother is less a band than a showcase for three separate
sensibilities, each helping the other to achieve the sound he wants. The effect
is strongly reminiscent of another group of disparate musicians coming together
for what had been conceived, at the time, as a one-off project: Crosby Stills &
Nash in 1969.

It's probably no coincidence that when the band first performed publicly, they
billed themselves as MG&V, just as Crosby Stills & Nash used CSN as their
abbreviation. Middle Brother connects to that tradition, and perhaps tellingly
locates its best lyrics not from one of their own compositions, but courtesy of
Paul Westerberg in their fine cover of The Replacements' "Portland."

(Soundbite of song, "Portland")

MIDDLE BROTHER: (Singing) Shared a cigarette for breakfast. Shared an airplane
ride for lunch. Sitting in between a ghost and a walking bowl of punch. Can you
play a little hunch? Predicting a delay on landing. I predict we'll have a
drink. Lost my money on the first hand. Got burned on a big fat king.

And your ears just want to ring. And your eyes just want to close. Nothing
changing I suppose. It's too late to turn back, here we go. Portland, oh no.

TUCKER: If I had to give the nod to one Middle Brother above the others, it
would be John McCauley. The Deer Tick singer's voice always cuts through any
piece of music with a reediness that's razor-sharp. Listen to the way he
borrows a few bars from the Elvis Presley hit "Don't Be Cruel" to become
rockingly self-absorbed in "Me, Me, Me."

(Soundbite of song, "Me, Me, Me")

MIDDLE BROTHER: (Singing) You get me out of trouble, as much as you could
(unintelligible) If you lie in your bed, put lies in your head. If he
interrupts the feeling that he cannot comprehend it's me me me me me. She put
me on the floor...

TUCKER: Although their press release says Middle Brother are young rock
songwriters striving to carry on the tradition of Neil Young, Bruce Springsteen
and Tom Petty, it's pretty clear that so unassuming an album as this is never
going to have the cultural or commercial impact of those men. Still, as a semi-
super-grouping of cult indie faves, these guys have their hearts in the right
place, even if their heads are in the clouds and their livers are in the bar.

GROSS: Ken Tucker is editor-at-large for Entertainment Weekly. He reviewed the
album "Middle Brother" from group of the same name.

You can download podcasts of our show on our website, freshair.npr.org.
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