Alan Ball, Talking 'True Blood' and 'Towelhead'

DATE September 10, 2008 ACCOUNT NUMBER N/A
TIME 12:00 Noon-1:00 PM
NETWORK NPR
PROGRAM Fresh Air

Interview: Producer/writer/director Alan Ball on his new HBO
series "True Blood" and his directorial debut, "Towelhead"
TERRY GROSS, host:

This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross.

After creating the HBO series "Six Feet Under" about a family that runs a
funeral home and is steeped in death, Alan Ball has created a new HBO series
about the undead. "True Blood," which premiered on Sunday, is about vampires
who have returned from the grave and live on a newly developed synthetic blood
called TruBlood. Their presence is so new no one knows what to make of these
vampires. Some people find them sexy; many people fear them. Some are just
curious. The vampires have formed their own lobby group, which is pushing for
a passage of a vampire rights act. The series is based on Charlaine Harris'
Southern vampire series of novels. Alan Ball also directed and wrote the new
movie "Towelhead," which we'll talk about a little later. Ball won an Oscar
for his screenplay "American Beauty."

Let's start with a scene from the first episode of "True Blood." Anna Paquin
plays a waitress in a small Louisiana town. A handsome, mysterious stranger
has just walked in, and she's ready to take his order.

(Soundbite of "True Blood")

Ms. ANNA PAQUIN: (As Sookie) Hi. And what--what can I get for you tonight?

Mr. STEPHEN MOYER: (As Bill) Do you have any of that synthetic bottled
blood?

Ms. PAQUIN: (As Sookie) No. I'm so sorry. Sam got some a year ago, but
nobody ever ordered it, so it went bad. You're our first--vampire.

Mr. MOYER: (As Bill) Am I that obvious?

Ms. PAQUIN: (As Sookie) I knew the minute you came in. Can't believe nobody
else around here seems to.

Mr. MOYER: (As Bill) He does.

Ms. PAQUIN: (As Sookie) Oh, don't worry about Sam. He's cool. I know for a
fact he supports the Vampire Rights Amendment.

Mr. MOYER: (As Bill) How progressive of him.

Ms. PAQUIN: (As Sookie) Well, anything else you drink?

Mr. MOYER: (As Bill) Actually, no. But you can get me a glass of red wine
so I have a reason to be here.

Ms. PAQUIN: (As Sookie) Well, whatever the reason, I'm glad you are.

(End of soundbite)

GROSS: Alan Ball, welcome back to FRESH AIR. Let's start with some of the
basic plot points for "True Blood." Why have the vampires come out of their
coffins and returned?

Mr. ALAN BALL: The vampires have made their presence known to humans because
there's been a development of synthetic blood by a Japanese biotech firm for
medical purposes, which the vampires claim satisfies all their nutritional
requirements, and so there's no reason for humans to fear them. And they've
put together a lobbying organization and they're lobbying for equal rights,
and ultimately what is at the root of everything, which is not very clear at
this point in the show, is they want ownership. They want to be able to own
things. And whether or not vampires can actually survive on TruBlood alone is
also something we just sort of have to take their word for. Although in this
world there are plenty of people who are willing to let vampires feed on them.

GROSS: Yeah, because it's kind of a kick for people. It's like, wow, they're
vampires.

Mr. BALL: It's a kick. It usually is accompanied by sex, and apparently
vampires are pretty good at sex...

GROSS: Yeah, and...

Mr. BALL: ...according to...

GROSS: Where does that come from? Where does that part of the lore come
from?

Mr. BALL: Well, you know, I wondered about that, and I think--well,
certainly if you've been around 100 years, you have time to perfect your
technique. But I also think--and part of the way we're playing vampires and
the supernatural in general is that it's not something that exists outside of
nature. It's actually a deeper, more primal manifestation of nature, so deep
and primal sometimes that we as humans don't even have the perception to see
it or feel it. So those are my own answers to the questions. In the books
that the series is based on, the Southern vampire series by Charlaine Harris,
pretty much all the vampires seem to be excellent bedfellows.

GROSS: You know, it's funny, in the original Bram Stoker "Dracula" novel, the
novel seems to be so much about sexual fear, you know, sexual attraction,
sexual fear.

Mr. BALL: Mm-hmm.

GROSS: And it's almost like a, you know, a metaphor for sexually transmitted
disease.

Mr. BALL: Mm. Well, I think, also, it certainly took on that
characteristics during the AIDS--you know, once the AIDS epidemic hit. But
it's also just a metaphor for sex. You know, somebody is penetrated, bodily
fluids are exchanged. There is a sort of surrender, so it's a pretty
potent--no pun intended--metaphor for just sex in and of itself, I think, and
has been ever since Bram Stoker's "Dracula."

GROSS: And in your series, "True Blood," there's a big connection between sex
and danger, and there's several characters in it who really like sex and
danger combined.

Mr. BALL: Mm-hmm.

GROSS: And sometimes it gets more dangerous than they expected.

Mr. BALL: Mm-hmm.

GROSS: But why was that interesting for you, exploring that connection that
exists for some people?

Mr. BALL: I don't really know. I think it was just a visceral thing. I
think when I started reading the books, they had a sort of pulp-y sensibility.
Everything was heightened, and each chapter ended with a cliffhanger, and
there was, you know, there's a big body count, and danger lurks around ever
corner, as does romance, as does, you know, finding someone you love or
meeting your maker in, you know, however you choose to interpret that. And
there was such a fun, thrill-ride adventure, science fiction, if you will,
feeling to the books that I just sort of went with that. It felt really
liberating to me after working so long on material that was basically just
about the intricacies of humans relating to each other to actually go into a
world where just fantastic things happen, and it's just kind of fun and silly.
And when I pitched it to HBO for the first time I said, `This is popcorn
television. You know, this is a popcorn TV show.'

GROSS: What else did you tell them?

Mr. BALL: Well, they asked me, `Well, what is the show about?' And I had no
answer. But being, you know, the Hollywood person that I have become in some
ways, unfortunately over the years, I just started talking and hoped that
something would come out of my mouth that sounded vaguely coherent. I think I
talked about the, you know, the fears that we project onto any minority group
that is misunderstood or feared, and then I said, `At the heart of it, though,
it is a show about the terrors of intimacy.' And I heard myself say that and I
thought, well, that sounds pretty good. And actually the more that I look at
it, I can sort of see that it is, in a sense, about the terrors of intimacy,
about breaking that wall that keeps you separate and safe from a sometimes
savage and dangerous world; and letting another person in, ultimately, is a
terrifying act.

GROSS: Especially when you're just meeting the person and you don't really
know who they are. And, you know, in a metaphorical way it's done in "True
Blood" because the main female character is telepathic. She can read people's
minds, but not the mind...

Mr. BALL: Right.

GROSS: ...of the vampire that she's fallen in love with.

Mr. BALL: Right.

GROSS: And so in this character, she's meeting this vampire and not really
sure, like is he good or evil or a combination of both, or can she trust
him...

Mr. BALL: Right.

GROSS: ...or not? And...

Mr. BALL: But at the same time, she can relax and just be herself without
putting up this guard that she has to work at and...

GROSS: Yes, she guards against other people because reading their minds...

Mr. BALL: She doesn't want to hear other people's thought.

GROSS: ...really complicates things. Yes.

Mr. BALL: Yeah.

GROSS: They're usually not good thoughts.

Mr. BALL: And it's a really sort of seductive space for her to just relax
like that.

GROSS: My guest is Alan Ball, and his new series "True Blood" just premiered
on HBO, and it's about vampires who come out of their graves because synthetic
blood is now available so they no longer have to feed on humans.

Did you grow up with any vampire movies or books?

Mr. BALL: You know, when I was a kid, "Dark Shadows" started airing, and me
and some of the neighborhood kids would rush home from school so that we could
be there when it started. And when that organ music came on or whatever the
music was--it was kind of spooky and there were shots of waves crashing
against rocks--we would hold our necks like we couldn't breathe while the
music was on. And then once the music was over, we'd leave and go outside and
play because the show itself was kind of boring to us. But that was--I mean,
I knew what vampires were, but I've never really--I'm not what one would call
a vampire aficionado. I don't really--you know, I haven't read a lot of the
popular vampire fiction. There are movies and television shows I've never
even seen.

GROSS: Have you seen the Bela Lugosi "Dracula" or...

Mr. BALL: Yes, of course I've seen that.

GROSS: "Nosferatu," the Klaus Kinski "Nosferatu"?

Mr. BALL: I have seen the Klaus Kinski "Nosferatu."

GROSS: In the Klaus Kinski "Nosferatu," there's so much brooding about the
curse of eternal life.

Mr. BALL: Yeah.

GROSS: People think they'd love to live eternally, but if you ask the Klaus
Kinski Nosferatu, he would see it as a curse.

Mr. BALL: Yeah, I would imagine that there is a curse aspect to it, because
if you live forever, then why is this day important? You know, you lose
everything.

GROSS: You know...

Mr. BALL: Everything you have you lose eventually, unless there are other
vampires. And I don't know, I just feel like the finite nature of life is
kind of what makes it important.

GROSS: You had to think a lot about blood in making this, both how you
wanted--like what kind of stage blood you wanted to use, what color...

Mr. BALL: Right.

GROSS: ...it should be, what thickness...

Mr. BALL: Right.

GROSS: ...it should be.

Mr. BALL: Right.

GROSS: You had to think about how it should taste to people, so what kind of
things did you do bloodwise to prepare for making "True Blood"?

Mr. BALL: Well, in the world of "True Blood," there is human blood and
there's vampire blood. Human blood is the blood that flows through all of our
veins. It's the same color, it's the same thickness, it's the same viscosity.
Vampire blood is a highly volatile, organic substance that, when ingested by
humans, can have aphrodisiac qualities. It can have increased strength,
increased senses. As a byproduct, it can also be hallucinogenic. It can be a
doorway into other perceptions. And so we wanted to make that very different
and very sort of really decadent, so we made it darker and thicker. It's
almost like molasses, and it's a really dark brownish red.

As far as what it tastes like, I never really even thought of that. We
certainly have--I just let the actors act, you know, how they seem to enjoy it
when they start drinking it, and we have dialogue referring to how TruBlood,
the synthetic blood is a poor substitute for refined vampire palates.

GROSS: My guest is Alan Ball. He created the new HBO series "True Blood,"
and he wrote and directed the new movie "Towelhead," which we'll talk about
later. More after a break. This is FRESH AIR.

(Announcements)

GROSS: My guest is Alan Ball. We're talking about his new HBO series "True
Blood." It's about vampires who have returned from the grave now that they can
drink a newly created synthetic blood.

I'd love to hear what casting was like, how people showed up, especially like
for the lead vampire role, the role that Steve Moyer plays. Like, how do
people show up for the role? Were they wearing...

Mr. BALL: A lot of people came in wearing...

GROSS: ...what they thought would be appropriate--yeah.

Mr. BALL: A lot of people came in wearing all black. You know,
there's--I've learned, now that I've done a season of the show, you know, you
got to be careful when you give an actor fangs because their tendency is to go
mad immediately and start doing vampire acting, which I really wanted to
avoid. I didn't want to have any of the strange contact lenses that like come
into--you know, that all of a sudden their eyes change when their fangs come
out, or there's any sort of prosthesis change in their facial structure. I
just wanted to give them fangs and let them act.

It was a really hard role to cast. We saw a lot of men. There were people
that I took to the network that the network was not crazy about. There were
people the network wanted to see that I was not crazy about. And then
Stephen, I saw off a video that a casting director in London had made and I
watched it in a tiny little postage stamp-size video on my computer, and there
was something so, for lack of a better word, real about him and the sort of
world-weary but tragic feeling that he brought to it--aside from being really,
really handsome, which helps.

GROSS: In a worn-out way.

Mr. BALL: Yeah, exactly. Like he's been through hell.

GROSS: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Mr. BALL: And there's actually a great line in one of the episodes where
Sookie says, `How old are you?' and he said, `I was 30 human years when I was
made vampire.' And she goes, `Wow, you look older than that.' And he says,
`Well, life was harder then.' But he really brought--for me what he brings to
the role is the sense of, it's tragic. It's tragic what happened to him. He
did not ask to be made vampire. He lost his family and his children, he lost
his life. And now he's condemned to wandering the world at night, not being a
part of the world that he was so much a part of before he was made vampire,
before he went off to fight in the Civil War. So we brought Stephen over, and
I worked with him for a day, and then we went into HBO, and it became very
obvious very fast that this was the guy we'd been waiting for.

GROSS: So did he not dress in all black for the audition?

Mr. BALL: You know, he wore jeans and like a blazer.

GROSS: No chains or anything?

Mr. BALL: No, he didn't come in in all black and he didn't come in with, you
know, the sort of extreme eyebrows and that kind of thing.

GROSS: You...

Mr. BALL: And I liked that about him, because I want Bill to, you know, just
be a guy who is a vampire.

GROSS: You said--you said you wanted to just give your actors fangs and let
them act.

Mr. BALL: Yeah.

GROSS: So talk about the fangs.

Mr. BALL: Well, in keeping with our idea about the supernatural being a
deeper, more profound manifestation of nature, we really thought a lot about
the physiology of the fangs, and we created fangs that actually lie flat along
the roof of the mouth and then click into place when a vampire is in danger or
aroused or ready to feed, much like a rattlesnake's fangs click into place.
And we actually created a model of teeth with--showing how the fangs click in
and click out, and then we put the fangs, not with the four front teeth
between them, but with only two, because it worked better for the physiology
of the rattlesnake, the snake fang working, and I like that because it looks a
little different. It doesn't look like the classic thing, and I like the fact
it's not just like the supernatural teeth morph into fangs. You know, it's
actually part of their physiology, and there's a sound they make when they
click, which is kind of like a weapon being loaded. So it really worked. You
know, it works well for the show in that regard, I think.

GROSS: Did you have to work with a dentist in order to get them made?

Mr. BALL: Oh, yeah. And even when we cast, you know, guest vampire for one
episode, they have to go off and get impressions made of their teeth, and they
make fangs. And it's hilarious to watch the dailies because the actors will
like make a face, and then we'll stop and everybody will go get their little
plastic cup with their fangs and put their fangs in and, you know, make sure
they fit, and then the scene keeps going.

GROSS: So can the actors activate the fangs by pressing a button in their
mouth?

Mr. BALL: No, no, no. They have to--that has to be done with visual
effects. They actually--the fangs are just--the actual fangs that they place
on their teeth once they've extended, but the extending and the retracting of
fangs we have to do as a visual effect, and we have to put little dots on the
actors' face as tracking marks

GROSS: I see.

Mr. BALL: So if you ever watch an unfinished cut of our show, there's some
unintentional humor in those moments.

GROSS: So we talked a little bit about casting Stephen Moyer as the lead
vampire.

Mr. BALL: Mm-hmm.

GROSS: Anna Paquin plays a waitress who is telepathic...

Mr. BALL: Hm.

GROSS: ...and starts to fall in love with the vampire and he with her, or at
least that's the way it's looking. So, talk about why you cast her. People
probably know her from "The Piano."

Mr. BALL: And the "X-Men" movies.

GROSS: And the "X-Men" movies, yeah. In "The Piano" she was like, what...

Mr. BALL: Eleven.

GROSS: Yeah, she was really young.

Mr. BALL: Yeah. When I heard that Anna wanted to come in and read for
Sookie I was surprised. I thought, well, why does she want to do this? She's
a movie star. But she aggressively pursued it, and then I thought about it
and I thought, Well, it makes perfect sense. It's a great role. It's the
lead of the show. She's sexy and she's a romantic heroine and she's strong
and she's, you know, she gets to play the gamut of human emotion and also have
all these great chase scenes and fight sequences. It actually makes perfect
sense to me.

And I wasn't too sold on the idea at first, because Sookie is described in the
books as being blond and blue-eyed, and I had only known Anna with dark hair,
which is her natural hair color. But, you know, once she came in and she
started reading and I started working with her, what she was playing and what
I really thought made the character really interesting was I could see that
this is a woman who had been hearing other people's thoughts her entire life.
And that she was kind of skittish and nervous and jumpy and a little angry,
and it kept her from being--you know, a lot of girls came in and they were
like sorority girls. You know, they overdid the Southern accent, or they sort
of came in dressed like Daisy Mae, and I sort of said, Mm, no. And the
character just came alive in a way with Anna that was the most interesting,
and so that's who we cast.

Because I always feel like, you know, I will have a clear idea of what I think
a character looks like when I write it, but the minute I start going into
casting I let it go, because you want to be open to people coming in and doing
different interpretations, because sometimes those interpretations are going
to be better, and they're going to work better and they're going to make the
character live more.

GROSS: Alan Ball will be back in the second half of the show to talk about
his new movie "Towelhead." Ball's new HBO series, "True Blood," premiered
Sunday. One scene featured a vampire advocating vampire rights on Bill
Maher's HBO show.

(Soundbite of "True Blood")

Unidentified Actor: (In character) We're citizens. We pay taxes. We deserve
basic civil rights just like everyone else.

Mr. BILL MAHER: (As himself) Yeah, but, I mean, come on, doesn't your race
have a rather sordid history of exploiting and feeding off innocent people for
centuries?

Actor: (In character) Three points. Number one, show me documentation. It
doesn't exist. Number two, doesn't your race have a history of exploitation?
We never owned slaves, Bill, or detonated nuclear weapons. And most
importantly, point number three, now that the Japanese have perfected
synthetic blood, which satisfies all of our nutritional needs, there is no
reason for anyone to fear us.

(End of soundbite)

GROSS: Here's the theme music from "True Blood." I'm Terry Gross, and this is
FRESH AIR.

(Soundbite of "Bad Things")

Mr. JACE EVERETT: (Singing) When you came in the air went out
And every shadow filled up with doubt
I don't know who you think you are,
But before the night is through...

(End of soundbite)

(Announcements)

GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross back with Alan Ball, the creator
of the new HBO series "True Blood." He also created the HBO series "Six Feet
Under" and won an Oscar for his screenplay "American Beauty." It's a big week
for Alan Ball. "True Blood" premiered Sunday. His new movie, "Towelhead,"
which he wrote and directed, opens Friday. He adapted the film from the novel
"Towelhead."

Alan Ball, you have a new movie that's about to premiere called "Towelhead,"
and it's a movie about a 13-year-old girl who is the daughter of a
Lebanese-American father and American mother, but the parents are separated
and the 13-year-old is now living with her mother and her mother's boyfriend.
And the movie is really about her transition into being a sexual person and
how confusing it is for her and for the people around her. Would you describe
the opening scene?

Mr. BALL: The opening scene of "Towelhead" is very similar to the opening
scene of "Towelhead" the novel in that Jasira's living with her mother and her
mother's live-in boyfriend, Barry, who's a little bit younger than her mother,
and is kind of a stoner and a nice guy. And Jasira has--girls have been
making fun of her at school in swim class because her pubic hair can be seen
around the edge of her bathing suit. So Barry offers to help her shave. And
that's the opening scene of the movie. The mom finds out about this, flips
out--understandably--and sends her daughter away to live with her father
rather than kicking her boyfriend out.

GROSS: And we should explain, when he shaves her, I mean, what we see is
she's wearing her bathing suit and she has shaving cream around the periphery
of the bathing suit so she could...

Mr. BALL: Yes. And I've always actually thought that...

GROSS: ...shave off the offending hair--yeah, go ahead.

Mr. BALL: I've always thought that Barry was not--in his mind, I think he's
not a very bright person and I think he probably smokes a lot of pot. I think
he thinks he's doing her a favor. It's not like--I don't think he sexualizes
her, but at the same time he knows to tell her, `It's probably best if you
don't tell your mom about this.'

GROSS: So the mom decides to send her away, send Jasira away to live with her
father.

Mr. BALL: Mm-hmm.

GROSS: And I want to play a short scene. This is Maria Bello as the mother
and Jasira is played by Summer Bishil, and they're both at the airport as the
mother is saying goodbye and explaining why she has to send Jasira away, and
Jasira is weeping.

(Soundbite of "Towelhead")

(Soundbite of airport announcement and voices)

Ms. MARIA BELLO: (As Gail Monahan) Stop crying, OK?

(Soundbite of crying)

Ms. BELLO: (As Gail Monahan) I know. I know, baby.

(Soundbite of crying)

Ms. BELLO: (As Gail Monahan) This is me, OK? This whole thing is your
fault. All right? The way that you walk around with your boobs stuck out,
it's impossible for him not to notice, and you're always talking about your
pubic hair.

Ms. SUMMER BISHIL: (As Jasira Maroun) Once. And only because the girls at
the pool called me Chaka.

Ms. BELLO: (As Gail Monahan) I don't know what that is.

Ms. BISHIL: (As Jasira Maroun) Barry does.

Ms. BELLO: (As Gail Monahan) The bottom line is, Jasira, there are right
ways to act around men and wrong ways, and for you to learn which is which you
should go live with one.

(Soundbite of crying)

Ms. BELLO: (As Gail Monahan) I'm sorry, I'm sorry. This is for your own
good. I'm telling you, you're going to thank me for this later.

(Soundbite of crying)

Ms. BELLO: (As Gail Monahan) Sh. People are looking at us. Honey.

(End of soundbite)

GROSS: That's a scene from Alan Ball's new movie "Towelhead," and, boy,
that's just about the worst thing that the mother could have said to the
daughter there, to blame her for her own sexuality and for the effect that it
has on men. And to take...

Mr. BALL: Yeah.

GROSS: ...no responsibility for what's--the mother takes no responsibility
for what's happening in her own home.

Mr. BALL: Mm-hmm. Well, it's too threatening. It's too competitive. She's
hyper aware of, you know, the fact that she's getting older, her daughter is
attractive, her boyfriend's looking at it, and she's so terrified of being
alone that the only way she can deal with it is to get rid of her daughter.
Something she does grow to regret.

GROSS: My guest is Alan Ball. He directed the new movie "Towelhead" and
created the new HBO series "True Blood." More after a break. This is FRESH
AIR.

(Announcements)

GROSS: My guest is Alan Ball. He created the HBO series "Six Feet Under" and
the new HBO series "True Blood." He also directed the new movie "Towelhead."

Your movie "Towelhead," which you wrote and directed, is based on a novel, and
I'm wondering what you related to about the story of a girl's confusing
feelings about her own sexuality. The novel's written by a woman.

Mr. BALL: Right.

GROSS: So tell me what you related to about the story.

Mr. BALL: I think what I related to in the story was how much I was able to
understand Jasira and what she was feeling and her desire to feel some
pleasure or some sense of power and adventure in what was basically a very
sterile and arid life, in which everybody seemed to want to control her.
Everybody seemed to want to keep her from doing anything. Everybody seemed to
want to just deny her her very existence and for her to do the same thing.

GROSS: Except for the men who want to take advantage of her.

Mr. BALL: Except for the men who want to take advantage of her, but even
they don't really see her. They see an idea that fits into their own
particular pathology. But they don't really see that there is an actual
person there. So I guess what I related to, it felt so real. It felt so
vivid and so true, and I loved the messiness of the feelings, and I loved the
fact that the story refused to judge any of the characters; even though some
of the characters do reprehensible things, the story refused to not see them
as human beings. And I certainly responded to that.

I guess, you know, going back to my own youth, my own becoming aware of my own
sexuality when I was 13, because I'm gay, there was a lot of shame and
confusion and secrecy and it's like I'm not supposed to be feeling these
things. I shouldn't be feeling these things. And so I guess there's a little
bit of transference that I could get into her head and identify with her a
little bit, but mostly it was just the sheer power of the writing and the
power of the story and the fact that she goes on this harrowing journey, that
she is somewhat provocative. She's curious, and once again the story refuses
to condemn her for that. And ultimately she sort of transcends a horrible
event in a way that makes you feel like she is really in control of her own
body and her own identity and her own life for the first time.

And that to me felt very refreshing, because I feel like the conventional
wisdom model that we have built so that we can wrap our brains around such a
horrible event as child sexual assault is that the child is 100 percent
innocent victim, is ruined for life, doesn't do nothing to provoke, does not
enjoy it in any way, is not curious, and the adult instigator is subhuman,
evil predator who has no soul, and it's the worst thing that a human being can
be. I just feel like that denies both--that really keeps us from seeing a lot
of what actually allows these events to happen, and, I don't know, I just felt
it was so refreshing to see a young girl character, especially, experience
something like this and not be destroyed by it.

GROSS: This might...

Mr. BALL: In fact, I feel...

GROSS: Go ahead.

Mr. BALL: In fact, I feel like she was probably a little stronger because of
it.

GROSS: I guess I feel I should acknowledge here that for some people, they
really are victims, and there are instances, a lot of them, where the guy
really has behaved like a monster. The adult really has behaved...

Mr. BALL: Absolutely, and I'm not denying that at all. I just think that
any time we try to simplify something into one paradigm, that what it does is
it denies us from seeing a lot of the complexity. And considering that this
is such an incredibly common experience, I do think there is a somewhat of a
knee-jerk need in our culture to sort of fetishize victimhood and make it
something in and of itself, which is not always good. That's just what I'm
saying, but that's not to say that, you know, people who do this are not doing
something monstrous.

GROSS: This might be too personal so we'll just move on if it is, but I'll
ask it and then you can tell me if you want to answer.

Mr. BALL: Mm-hmm.

GROSS: When you were young, when you were, say, Jasira's age, 13...

Mr. BALL: Mm-hmm.

GROSS: ...did you have an encounter with an adult man that was a very
ambiguous encounter for you?

Mr. BALL: I did; not when I was 13. I was younger. I don't remember
exactly how old I was. I did.

GROSS: And--I don't know what you're comfortable talking about in terms of
that event and how it affected you as a person and as an artist.

Mr. BALL: Well, I'm sure it affected me in a lot of ways. I'm sure it
affected my feelings about sexuality, my body, whatever. I don't see myself
as a victim, and I'm not particularly interested in identifying with
victimhood. That's why I don't even really think that I was molested. It was
someone who was older, but he was not, you know, that much older. It wasn't
like he was a grown, adult man. I don't know. I've certainly never talked
about it, and it's not because I'm ashamed of it. It's just that it's like,
well, that happened, you know. I feel like other things happened to me in my
life that were way more traumatic and way more damaging that I have had to
struggle with to sort of get past the trauma for years and years and years.
But I know a lot of people go, like, `What's with this guy? Why does he keep
writing about old guys lusting after young girls? What a pervert, what a
creep.' And the reason I write about these things is because it has personal
resonance for me.

GROSS: Have you tried to like figure out what was going on in this guy's mind
when you were young and he had that encounter with you?

Mr. BALL: I think--no, I haven't.

GROSS: I ask because you tried to get into, say, the Kevin Spacey character's
mind in "American Beauty."

Mr. BALL: Well, I think he was--I think growing up as we did in, you know,
in the South, and just like the mid-'60s probably, I think he was probably
aware of homosexual feelings on his part and probably aware of a certain
energy within me, and because we didn't live in a culture where there were
really any sort of legitimized ways of exploring that, because at that point,
you know, one didn't even talk about being gay or consider it as just another
expression of human sexuality. I think probably because we were both so
ashamed by just the cultural take on who and what we were that it, you know,
it just sort of happened.

GROSS: You know, in...

Mr. BALL: My memories...

GROSS: Yeah, go ahead.

Mr. BALL: ...are very sketchy, and I don't want to--you know, I really--I
mean, I'm fine to talk about this, but I don't want to be one of those people
who say, `I was molested!'

GROSS: Well, do you think of the word "molested," or do you think that's the
wrong word for what you experienced?

Mr. BALL: No, I'm just talking about people who go on TV or go, you know,
get interviewed by magazines and it's all about, `I'm sharing this deep
painful secret.' Because I sort of feel like, you know what? You want some
painful secrets? I got much more painful secrets than that one.

GROSS: You know, I'm curious. Like in "Towelhead," the Jasira character, the
13-year-old, has somebody who enters her life who is a sane adult, like maybe
for the first time there's a real, like sexually sane adult in her life.

Mr. BALL: Yes.

GROSS: Was there someone like that in your life who you could turn to when
you were confused about your own sexual identity?

Mr. BALL: You know what? I think my sister would have served that role. I
think my sister knew that there was something different about me. I remember
she gave me a poster for my birthday once. It was that Thoreau quote about,
"if a man marches to the beat of a different drummer." I think one of her
close friends in high school was a guy who was gay. I think she would have
been that person, but she died.

GROSS: She died in a car accident, right?

Mr. BALL: Yeah, when I was 13. And then everybody in the family went insane
after that. So I was really sort of on my own.

GROSS: Right.

Mr. BALL: In a lot of ways like Jasira was. Now that you mention it, I can
sort of see that, that sort of like left alone in the house. You know, that
sort of solitary existence where the adults are all off, you know, in my case,
dealing with their own breakdowns and that kind of thing. But I certainly
related to that as well.

GROSS: Do you think a lot of adults underestimate the sexual feelings of
children and teenagers?

Mr. BALL: Yes. I think, you know, actually one thing that was really
interesting. When I sent the script out, a lot of people passed on it. A lot
of people who ran, you know, studios and literally I heard comments like, `I
can't possible make this movie. I have daughters.' And I thought, And that's
exactly why you should make this movie. Yeah, I think people don't want to
think that kids are sexually curious, but I think when we all just think back
to our own childhood, of course we are. And especially in a culture now where
everything is saturated with sex. You know, just watching, you know,
mainstream TV or going to the movies or turning on your computer and looking
at the images that are on your welcome page. It's just sex, sex, sex. And so
I think it's much more in the faces of children now than it was when I was a
kid, and I was fascinated by it. Yeah. I think kids are naturally curious
about sex, and there's nothing wrong with that. They just need somebody to
like be straight with them.

GROSS: During one of our interviews on FRESH AIR about "Six Feet Under," you
talked about how you really found it very difficult to go to funerals, and
you'd often try to find like an excuse not to go.

Mr. BALL: Right.

GROSS: In part because, you know, your sister died when you were 13 and it
was such a traumatic experience for you and your family...

Mr. BALL: Right.

GROSS: ...that it was just very difficult to deal with funerals. And then of
course you made "Six Feet Under," which is about a family that runs a funeral
home.

Mr. BALL: Right.

GROSS: And as we talked about your new series "True Blood" is about, you
know, vampires, the undead, who have slept...

Mr. BALL: Hm.

GROSS: ...in coffins and there's graveyards in it and so on. I read that
after "Six Feet Under" was completed your mother died.

Mr. BALL: Yes.

GROSS: Did you have to prepare her funeral?

Mr. BALL: Yes.

GROSS: Did she...

Mr. BALL: I mean, my brother did the bulk of the work, because he was there
at the time and he had sort of assumed the role as primary caretaker, but I
was definitely there for that. And I definitely went to the funeral and I
definitely was there in the meetings with the people at the funeral home. And
it was very funny, because my mom had left very specific wishes. She wanted
the cheapest casket. She didn't want any obituaries. She wanted a funeral
with only her immediate family. She was, like, `Don't do anything fussy.'
And, you know, those were her wishes, so I felt like we had to--we had no
choice. We had to honor them.

GROSS: Do you know why she wanted that?

Mr. BALL: I think part of it is just because she was always a person who
really did not like people making a fuss over her or taking care of her. She
was fiercely, fiercely independent. She was a child of the Depression, so she
was really aware of money. You know, she didn't any money. She didn't want
to spend any money on something like a funeral. But while we were there at
the funeral home, the young guy who worked there came up to me and said, `I
just want you to know I'm in this business because of you.' And I was really
touched by that.

GROSS: Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

Mr. BALL: I thought--at first, I said, `Well, that's a good thing, right?
You like this business?' He said, `Oh, yeah. I love it. I can't--you know,
I'm so glad I found it.' And then I was really touched by it.

And it was, you know, it was hard. I mean, you know, seeing your parent dead
is hard. You know, and she was in this cheap casket and I wanted to look at
her. We wanted to see her one last time, and so we looked at her and I kissed
her, you know, and that's something I never could have imagined myself doing.

GROSS: Did she look like herself?

Mr. BALL: Not at all. No, she looked like something else. She refused to
be embalmed. She did not want that, and she did not have anything, you know,
any sort of cosmetic or anything done. But just--I mean, just the way she was
laying, gravity did something different to her face, so it really looked like
somebody different. And, you know, with her spirit gone, it wasn't her.

GROSS: I sometimes really miss the characters from "Six Feet Under." Do you
think about them much?

Mr. BALL: I don't. I feel like, you know, they--when "Six Feet Under"
ended, it felt to me as if it was very--it was the right time, and it was time
to let them go. And I think in shooting that last episode, we all sort of
grieved for them, so I've kind of let them go and I've said goodbye to them.
But I love that they stay in your mind. That means that they were powerful on
some level.

GROSS: Yeah. Well, Alan Ball, thank you so much for talking with us.

Mr. BALL: Thank you, Terry. I really love talking to you. Let's do it
again.

GROSS: Alan Ball's new movie "Towelhead" opens Friday.

Coming up, a collaboration between a novelist and a musician. This is FRESH
AIR.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Review: Ken Tucker on I'm Not Jim's album "You Are All My People"
TERRY GROSS, host:

The new band called I'm Not Jim is essentially a collaboration between the
novelist Jonathan Lethem and musician Walter Salas-Humara, the leader of the
indy band The Silos. Ken Tucker has a review of their CD "You Are All My
People."

(Soundbite of "Mr. October")

Mr. WALTER SALAS-HUMARA: (Singing) My tired,
Dreaming head
Called her back to my bed
It's not enough to say
There are no spaces in between
My tired
Dreaming head
Painted her whole body red
It's easy to say
Things are not as simple
As you see

Went to a party...

(End of soundbite)

Mr. KEN TUCKER: There's a tradition of novelists who have written rock
songs: Rick Moody, Madison Smartt Bell, the science fiction writer John
Shirley, who wrote Blue Oyster Cult lyrics, Bob Dylan--I'm sure you reread
"Tarantula" every summer, don't you?--and, let's see, Thomas Pynchon has
written a lot of lyrics in his books that could be set to music. I'm sure
you'll tell me who I'm forgetting. But to this select company we must now add
Jonatham Lethem, author of such excellent novels as "Fortress of Solitude,"
"Motherless Brooklyn," and my favorite, "As She Climbed Across the Table."

Lethem is a fan of The Silos, and upon meeting that band's Walter
Salas-Humara, found himself writing lyrics for what became the band I'm Not
Jim, a quartet completed by the production team of Chris Maxwell and Phil
Hernandez. The result is a series of real rock songs, not self-conscious
literary set pieces.

(Soundbite of "Elevated Plane")

Mr. SALAS-HUMARA: (Singing) Some days nothing happens
And you think nothing can
Some days the...(unintelligible)...run your hands

Elevated plane
Elevated plane
And I can't let you struggle
Not to dash for the train
Not looking for trouble
Nor pain

Elevated plane

(End of soundbite)

Mr. TUCKER: That's "Elevated Plane," and I don't know what it's about and I
don't really care; it's a good song. Walter Salas-Humara sings the lyrics.
He sings all the lyrics, by the way. As best I can tell, you don't hear
Jonathan Lethem vocalizing at all here, nor does he play any instruments.
Salas-Humara sings the lyrics of "Elevated Plane" with a blues-y smear that
suits the flat slam of the melody. This song and a few others, such as "After
Mild Winter," a fine composition about the general malaise that sets in after
a breakup, have a gleaming, hard edge.

Elsewhere, however, this group I'm Not Jim creates crisp little pop tunes with
choruses that sound like forgotten hits from decades-old rock radio stations.
One of my favorites, "Amanda Morning," is a song I can imagine Paul Revere and
the Raiders or the 1910 Fruit Gum Company releasing in 1969, which I mean as a
high compliment.

(Soundbite of "Amanda Morning")

Mr. SALAS-HUMARA: (Singing) In her bedroom, in the dawn hours
Under the covers
Watch the clock
Watch the second hand
Watch the sand run out
Get on a radar and claim a spot

Pick the phone up
The man's on call waiting
Stealing time
Never getting caught

Amanda, Amanda morning
Amanda, later as we speak,
Amanda afternoon
Amanda evening
Amanda even later in the week

(End of soundbite)

Mr. TUCKER: If there's a theme running through this album, "You Are All My
People," it's that few of the right people love the narrators of these songs;
breakups, unrequited love, loneliness and self-reproach prevail. Lethem knows
that the medium he's working in succeeds best when the sounds--not even words
or turns of phrase, but the noise the words make complement the melodies.

Then there are amusing story songs, organized around titles such as "Drink
Till I'm Sober" and this collection of similes called "Meter Running in a
Crashed Cab."

(Soundbite of "Meter Running in a Crashed Cab")

Mr. SALAS-HUMARA: (Singing) Like a meter running in a crashed cab
Like a needle bumping 'round I'm in a groove
Like a meter running in a crashed cab
The game's long over, but the players don't move
You're on my nerves, getting under my skin
I know sooner or later it's going to sink in
The game got called on account of doom
Now you're singing operettas to an empty room
Like a meter running...

(End of soundbite)

Mr. TUCKER: It's easy to understand why Lethem admires Walter Salas-Humara
and The Silos, with their conversational voices and first person miserable
songs such as "All She Wrote" and "The Only Story I Can Tell." Lethem's most
recent novel, "You Don't Love Me Yet," was about how hard it is to claim
authorship of a rock song when its creation involves so much inner thought
followed by collaboration and accidents in the recording studio. Performing
under the name I'm Not Jim, Lethem isn't Jonathan Lethem. He's just another
guy in a band, teamed up with Salas-Humara, who'll play Lennon to his
McCartney, Jagger to his Richards, Davy Jones to his Mike Nesmith. More fun
than a barrel of monkeys.

GROSS: Ken Tucker is editor at large for Entertainment Weekly. He reviewed
the debut CD by I'm Not Jim.

(Credits)

GROSS: I'm Terry Gross.
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