Actor, director, screenwriter Billy Bob Thornton

DATE January 9, 2002 ACCOUNT NUMBER N/A
TIME 12:00 Noon-1:00 PM AUDIENCE N/A
NETWORK NPR
PROGRAM Fresh Air

Interview: Billy Bob Thornton talks about his life and career
TERRY GROSS, host:

This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross.

My guest is actor, screenwriter and director Billy Bob Thornton. This week,
Thornton received the best actor award from the National Board of Review for
his role in three films: "The Man Who Wasn't There," "Bandits" and
"Monster's
Ball." He's probably best known for the 1996 film "Sling Blade," which he
wrote, directed and starred in. He also co-wrote and starred in "One False
Move," received an Academy Award nomination for his supporting role in "A
Simple Plan," directed "All the Pretty Horses" and co-wrote "The Gift."

Let's start with a scene from "Monster's Ball." Thornton plays a
corrections
officer at a state prison in a small rural town in Georgia. He heads the
team
that handles the execution of prisoners on death row. His son has recently
started to work on the team. It's the night before a scheduled execution of
a
prisoner who's African-American. Thornton's character is a racist, but he
takes his job very seriously, particularly the rituals surrounding the
condemned prisoner's final hours. In this scene, he's at a bar talking to
his
son, who made a mistake during a run-through of protocol for the execution.

(Soundbite from "Monster's Ball")

Mr. BILLY BOB THORNTON: (As character) Just like I said, no more mistakes,
all right? I want to make damn sure nobody makes any mistakes, especially
you, because when it gets time for us to do it, you know, you can't mess up.
That goes for me, too, and the rest of them. They ain't no different than
us.
You can't screw it up.

I mean, they even go as far as to give the guy a party the night before.
They
call it the monster's ball. He don't want no lawyer or no preacher or
anything that around, so it's just you and me. Like I said, you can't think
about what he did or anything else about him. It's a job. We have to do
our
job right.

GROSS: Billy Bob Thornton, welcome to FRESH AIR.

Mr. THORNTON: Thank you for having me.

GROSS: Was there a prison in your town in Arkansas when you were growing
up?
Did you have any contact with prison life or prison guards?

Mr. THORNTON: Really the only contact with jails I mostly had was through
an
uncle of mine who was a sort of a rogue, and every now and then my mother
would wake us up in the middle of the night and say, `We have to Greenville,
Texas, and get your Uncle Don out of jail.'

I guess my first experiences with prisons were playing music. I was a
musician growing up, and still play music, and I actually played at a couple
of prisons. One was a female prison, actually, that I played at a couple of
times, and it was very strange, I have to say.

GROSS: What was strange about it?

Mr. THORNTON: It was the first time I ever knew how women feel around,
like,
construction workers. It was--it was really...

GROSS: Were they hooting at you?

Mr. THORNTON: Yeah, it was that kind of thing, but since then--I mean, you
know, since I became an actor and everything, I've shot in several prisons.
I've been at the New Mexico state prison, Oregon State Penitentiary for men;
years ago, a movie called "Blood In, Blood Out" that we did in San Quentin,
and Angola, in this case, for "Monster's Ball." So I've been around a bunch
of them.

GROSS: You've written several films. You didn't write "Monster's Ball."
When
you haven't written a film that you're acting in, do you ever rewrite your
own
lines?

Mr. THORNTON: Yes. I don't think I would call it rewriting them. I don't
even rewrite my own stuff, but I improvise within the structure of what
we've
already got, you know. It's like a--I usually do it just on the set. I'm
sort of an improvisational actor. The only movie, ever, that I didn't
improvise in was "The Man Who Wasn't There," the Coen brothers movie I just
had out, not because it's a sticky plot, necessarily, but just because it's
just one thing. It's like one animal, their screenplays, and you sort of
need
to stick to it to make it all make sense, and I actually ad-libbed one line
in
the whole movie, and I asked them if I could do it.

It was the first time I've ever done that, too. I just said, `Hey, listen,
guys, do you mind? There's just something I want to say here,' and there's
a
scene in the movie where this young girl and I have this car accident, and
it's because she's sort of trying to toy with me in a sexual way, which I'm
not ready for, and I say, `Heavens to Betsy.' That was my one ad-lib line,
and I got that because my wife and I are big fans of a cartoon, a
Hanna-Barbera cartoon called "Snagglepuss," and Snagglepuss used to say
`Heavens to Murgatroyd' and `Heavens to Betsy' all the time.

GROSS: Why don't we hear that scene?

(Soundbite from "The Man Who Wasn't There")

Unidentified Woman: (As Birdy) You know, I really do appreciate the
interest
you've taken.

(Soundbite of kiss)

Mr. THORNTON: (As Mr. Crane) Birdy...

Unidentified Woman: I just wanted to make you happy.

Mr. THORNTON: Birdy...

Unidentified Woman: No, it's really OK. I want to do it.

Mr. THORNTON: Birdy...

Unidentified Woman: No, it's OK, really.

Mr. THORNTON: No!

Unidentified Woman: Mr. Crane, I want to do it.

Mr. THORNTON: No! No!

Unidentified Woman: Mr. Crane.

Mr. THORNTON: Birdy, please don't do that.

Unidentified Woman: Mr. Crane, please!

Mr. THORNTON: Heavens to Betsy, Birdy!

Unidentified Woman: Let me, please, Mr. Crane.

(Soundbite of screeching brakes, automobile horns, scream and crash)

GROSS: In your role in "The Man Who Wasn't There," through most of the
movie,
you're almost like dead, you know? You have very little affect. You're
totally alienated from everything in your life, and yet, you have a lot of
charisma as an actor in that role, and that seems something that's really
hard
to do, to play somebody who's almost dead in terms of their engagement with
the world, and yet to have charisma.

Mr. THORNTON: Well, that was sort of the hard part of playing that role.
You know, I knew that I had to carry the entire movie, and yet be someone
who
is sort of invisible to people, you know, and it's the man who wasn't there.
I mean, he was someone who was ignored by everyone, pretty much, and someone
who felt like he just didn't fit in this universe at all, didn't know where
his place was and was looking for it, and yet he had to be the focus of an
entire movie. So it was by far the hardest part I ever played.

And people often--I guess people who aren't actors would probably assume,
and
you can't blame them, that the very emotional parts are the hard ones, the
ones where you scream and yell and, you know, toss all the things off the
chest of drawers or whatever, and cry or whatever. But those are really
usually easier things to do, because you know where you're going. You know,
in other words, you have something to do. It's like oftentimes an extreme
accent, something extremely different than your own, is easier to do than
something that's slightly different than your own. And in this case, the
part, you know, just required me to to sort be there, but I had to be
thinking
all the time, because he's a very intense person. A lot of people are
saying
that it reminds them of Humphrey Bogart...

GROSS: Yeah.

Mr. THORNTON: ...or Joseph Cotten, people like that, but truthfully, the
acting style and the person that I kind of latched on to for the part was
Montgomery Clift, who was always very sort of--you know, sort of tortured
and
desperate, but in a very quiet way?

GROSS: More vulnerable way, too.

Mr. THORNTON: Yeah, more vulnerable way, definitely.

GROSS: Would you describe the town where you grew up?

Mr. THORNTON: Yeah. Well, I grew up in two towns. Until I was eight years
old, I lived in a town called Alpine, Arkansas, which was out in the middle
of
nowhere. It's in the woods; there's not really a town, it's just kind of
this
valley between all these mountains, and we were sort of the only literate
people there. My grandmother had been a schoolteacher in the old days, you
know, like the one-room schoolhouse thing, and my father was going to
college
on the GI Bill--he'd been in the Korean War--so we lived with my grandmother
until I was, like I said, about eight years old or nine years old. And my
grandfather was a retired forestry worker, and he killed what we ate pretty
much, you know.

GROSS: Mm-hmm.

Mr. THORNTON: Squirrel, opossum, raccoon. You know, he would make turtle
soup, all kinds of stuff. We had no electricity, no running water. We had
coal oil lamps, all that kind of thing. And my friends in California
usually
don't believe that. I mean, they think that that's only from, like, the
1800s
or something. You know, kids who were raised in Los Angeles, they just
don't
get that whole deal. But...

GROSS: How old were you when you got electricity?

Mr. THORNTON: Well, when we moved into this other town of like nine or
10,000
people when I was in the third grade. So that's when things started
to--well,
I mean, to us it was like we'd moved to New York or something, you know?

GROSS: So when you moved into this other town, you had electricity, running
water?

Mr. THORNTON: Oh, yeah.

GROSS: How about television, radio?

Mr. THORNTON: You know, I think my grandmother got electricity when I was
more like five or six; when we still lived there, she got the electricity.
And I actually got an old black-and-white television set. And the reason I
remember that so clearly is because she was mopping the floor and it was a
metal television set. And somehow she touched the TV standing in the water
and I don't think she was wearing any shoes. And it really got her pretty
good. I remember that. It was kind of like Frankenstein, you know,
electricity bad or something like that, you know. But anyway, when we moved
into this town, it was called Malvern, Arkansas, which is about 20 miles
from
Hot Springs, which is where Clinton was from and everything, or where he
went
to school. And it was like all of those towns--there are all these towns
that
are about that size, you know, and I guess in every state, you know. And,
you
know, the football team is a big deal. You know, there's a country club
where
all the doctors and lawyers go. And, you know, it's one of those kind of
towns.

GROSS: What about the movie theaters? Were there movie theaters?

Mr. THORNTON: One movie theater. It was called the Ritz Theatre, which,
you
know, my movies now play at, which is very strange when I go home and visit
and see something--when I saw "Sling Blade" on the marquee, it was very
strange.

GROSS: Is it a multiplex now or is it--you know, did they twin it at least?

Mr. THORNTON: Yeah. Yeah, I think there's like two of them now. It's not
like it was. I haven't been in it, actually. It's weird when I go home. I
want to go home, and yet there are things there that give me such flashbacks
that it's kind of tough. And part of it is this: I'm not real big on the
movie business. You know, the business end of it, the marketing and the
way--you know, the state of movies and the multiplex thing, like you're
talking about, all that. It's kind of disturbing to me. And I remember the
Ritz Theatre as this great magical place. And the movies that I saw there,
at
least the ones that I remember, were the ones that were just innocent kid
fun,
you know? I remember "The Ghost and Mr. Chicken" and "Lt. Robin Caruso"
with
Dick Van Dyke and, you know, movies like that. And we would go on Saturday
and you could stay--in those days, you'd pay like 35 cents or whatever it
was
to get in the movies, and then it became 50 cents. I remember being excited
when there was a double feature. I mean, wow, we get to see two movies.
These days, people barely have the attention span to watch half of one
movie,
you know? That really disturbs me. So--you know?

GROSS: Did you have a place to buy records when you were growing up?

Mr. THORNTON: Oh, yeah. There was one record shop, also. I mean, now, you
know, everything's moved out of town. Main Street's a ghost town, you know,
and, you know, there's like the Wal-Mart and all the big shopping centers on
the outskirts of town. But, I mean, I loved the record shop. It was called
Paula's Record Shop(ph). It was run by an older lady. And she was one of
those people that when I would go back home, I would see her, and it's kind
of
like--you know like how Dick Clark is always young?

GROSS: Yeah.

Mr. THORNTON: There are also those people who are always old.

GROSS: Absolutely.

Mr. THORNTON: It's like she was old when I was like five.

GROSS: Absolutely, yeah.

Mr. THORNTON: And then when I was like 35, she was exactly the same person,
you know? And so it was like a music store and a record shop. And like she
sold tambourines, and she had like one drum set. And she would have two or
three guitars, you know, in there. And I wanted nothing more in the world
than to be The Beatles. You know, I mean, that's what I wanted to be. Or
The
Dave Clark Five or whatever. And I had little bands from the time I was
like
nine years old. And so Paula's Record Shop was, you know, like going to Oz
for me. It was just fantastic. And the first record I bought in there with
my own money--I went in and bought "I Want to Hold Your Hand," which the B
side was "I Saw Her Standing There."

GROSS: A good choice.

Mr. THORNTON: Oh, yeah. I love that song.

GROSS: My guest is actor, screenwriter and director Billy Bob Thornton.
We'll talk more after a break. This is FRESH AIR.

(Soundbite from "I Want to Hold Your Hand")

THE BEATLES: (Singing) Oh, yeah, I'll tell you something I think you'll
understand. When I say that something, I want to hold your hand. I want to
hold your hand. I want to hold your hand...

GROSS: My guest is Billy Bob Thornton.

Now your mother is a psychic, and that apparently was the inspiration for
your
movie "The Gift." You wrote the screenplay. It starred Cate Blanchett as a
mother and psychic who investigates a murder in her town that hits very
close
to home. What kind of abilities did your mother have, or does she have?

Mr. THORNTON: When I was growing up, you know, we got a lot of flak. I
think
it's in the movie, actually, you know, about the kids getting a bunch of
guff
at school for it. People would call my mother a witch and things like that.
And then a lot of people would just dismiss it. But at the same time,
everybody in town would come to see my mother. But they didn't necessarily
want anybody to know that. So they would--I mean, especially men. They
would
see her in secret, you know, wouldn't want anybody to know that they did
something as crazy or sissylike as to go to a psychic. I mean, it was a
very
sort of redneck male-oriented kind of society that I grew up in.

But the thing about ESP, which is what my mother has, is it's not the way
people think. You don't go to her and say, `Hey, am I going to meet a tall,
handsome stranger?' and she says, `Yes, and it's going to be in October.'
You
go and you talk to her. In other words, she feels things about people. She
has instincts about people. And she will tell you when she gets around to
it,
but you can't just ask her a question and say, `Hey, is this thing going to
happen?' She may not have that information for you, but she may have
something else for you. Like she'll be talking to you and she'll say, `So
have you been thinking about buying a new car?' and you'll say, `No, I don't
think so. Not really.' And then you'll say, `So anyway what about this big
business deal? You think it's going to come through?' and she'll say,
`Well,
you know, it could. It definitely could. You're sure you're not thinking
about buying a new car?' `Well, no, I haven't been.' And then two days
later
somebody calls this person up and says, `Hey, listen, I've got this great
GTO
for sale,' you know, and they buy this car. I mean, it happens that way,
you
know?

GROSS: Mm-hmm. Now you called your movie about a psychic "The Gift." Did
you grow up thinking that your mother had a gift and that certain talents
were
just gifts, there were things that you were just given, they came with you
and
it was up to you to decide how to use it? But either you had that gift or
you
didn't. And did you think of yourself as having a gift?

Mr. THORNTON: Yes. To answer the first part of it, I did think that people
are born with gifts, absolutely. And I had never really questioned all
that.
I always thought that if you had to try very hard to do something, it wasn't
worth doing. And I still feel that to a certain degree. And people always
talk about hard work and perseverance, but I think that the people with the
creative side of the brain, I think those people are the ones--I mean, it
was
pretty obvious, they're the ones who are always daydreaming. They usually
don't make good grades. They're always like, you know--don't have much of
weird things. Like, you know, well, I've got phobias and different things
like that. Usually just the more eccentric people, you know?

GROSS: Mm-hmm.

Mr. THORNTON: And then there are other people who are very practical, very
hardworking and that kind of thing. That was the world that I never quite
understood. And although, I mean, both worlds obviously, you know, are
valid
and everything. But I just never related to that world. I always thought
that you can either do things or you can't do them, you know? And I look at
it that way and--like, for instance, in marriage or relationships, you know,
people always say, `Well, you know, marriage is hard work.' My marriage is
really not hard work. I've been married before, and it wasn't that it was
hard work, it's just that it was wrong, you know?

GROSS: Right, right, right.

Mr. THORNTON: It just wasn't the right place to be, and there was no work
to
it. It was like, well, this is not the right thing. I shouldn't be here,
and
they shouldn't be here, either. You know?

GROSS: You mentioned phobias.

Mr. THORNTON: Right.

GROSS: If you don't mind talking about it, what are some of your phobias
and
do they affect your gifts? Considering your gifts include writing and
acting,
do the phobias interfere with those gifts?

Mr. THORNTON: Well, the phobias don't necessarily interfere; particularly
when I did the movie "Bandits," it was helpful, because I played a guy with
phobias. But, you know, my phobias aren't really that much of a hindrance
in
my professional life or anything. I have a fear of antique furniture,
certain
kinds of antique furniture that I can't be around. I can be around...

GROSS: Wait, wait, wait. Not a common fear. What's the problem with
antique
furniture?

Mr. THORNTON: Well, I just get creeped out by it. I can't be around it.
And
there's--a lot of people have this sort of simplistic idea about what that
is.
They think, well, it's a past life thing and, you know, something weird
happened to you at a certain time and, you know, whatever, which I don't
doubt
that it's a past life thing. I mean, one friend of mine said maybe I was
beaten to death with an antique chair. But...

GROSS: Excuse me for laughing.

Mr. THORNTON: Oh, no, it's fine. But, you know, I don't know exactly what
it
is. It involves food, though. I can't eat around antique furniture.
That's
the main way it affects me. But anything Asian, I'm OK with. Like if
something is like centuries and centuries old, if it's Asian, I'm OK with
it.
But if it's like French or English or Scottish or something like that, I get
so creeped out I can't describe it. Like my worst nightmare is like a
castle
with velvet draperies and things like that.

GROSS: It sounds like a Vincent Price movie to me.

Mr. THORNTON: Exactly. Right. Yeah. I can't be in a Vincent Price movie.
I have an unnatural fear of Benjamin Disraeli's hair.

GROSS: Strange, but--yeah.

Mr. THORNTON: Yes, strange but true.

GROSS: Yeah. That's the thing about phobias. They're sometimes really
strange.

Mr. THORNTON: Oh, they're very out there.

GROSS: Yeah.

Mr. THORNTON: And I also have a little obsessive-compulsive disorder which
is
a thing to do with numbers and words. And the main way it affects me is in
reading. I have trouble reading. And it takes me a long...

GROSS: Well, how do you learn parts?

Mr. THORNTON: I usually have someone, like my assistant usually, they read
the stuff to me. I read a script one time and never read it again. I do
that
just because that's my way as an actor. I don't want to know the stuff.

GROSS: Do you have a very good memory?

Mr. THORNTON: Yeah, pretty good. Pretty good memory. And I won't say it's
a
photographic memory, but it's close.

GROSS: Right. Right.

Billy Bob Thornton will be back in the second half of the show. I'm Terry
Gross, and this is FRESH AIR.

(Soundbite of music)

(Announcements)

(Soundbite of music)

GROSS: Coming up, we continue our conversation with actor, screenwriter and
director Billy Bob Thornton. And we'll listen to him sing on his new CD.
We're listening now to music from the soundtrack of his film "Sling Blade."

(Soundbite of music)

GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross back with actor, screenwriter
and
director Billy Bob Thornton. He just won the National Board of Review's
Best
Actor award for his performance in three films: "The Man Who Wasn't There,"
"Bandits" and "Monster's Ball." He also wrote, directed and starred in
"Sling
Blade," co-wrote and starred in "One False Move" and directed "All The
Pretty
Horses."

Now you played in bands before you started making movies...

Mr. THORNTON: Right.

GROSS: ...and you even have a new CD now. What were you bands like? What
was the repertoire? Did you mostly sing or play drums or both?

Mr. THORNTON: I never played drums and sang at the same time. I always
thought that looked weird when the drummer was the singer. The only guy who
could ever pull it off, I thought, was Levon Helm with The Band, but I
started
out playing drums as a little kid. And, you know, when I saw Ringo Starr,
when I saw The Beatles on "The Ed Sullivan Show," that was it for me. The
British Invasion was a big deal. I mean, that's what I wanted to be. I
wanted to be one of those guys, Gerry & the Pacemakers and The Beatles and
The
Animals, people like that. In my first band, we played a lot of stuff by
people like that, like The Dave Clark Five and...

GROSS: Did you have a British accent...

Mr. THORNTON: Yeah.

GROSS: ...when you sang?

Mr. THORNTON: No, I never had a British accent, but I had, like, the narrow
pants and the Beatle boots. It was so funny. I see the way I dress these
days. I still dress kind of like I did in 1964, but, I mean, I still have
Beatle boots, you know, wear them all the time. But anyway, we played all
that British Invasion stuff and then sort of the American Beatles kind of
came
along, which for us, in the South anyways, was The Byrds. And so that
became
my deal and actually my record. I signed with Mercury Records a couple of
years ago and have a record out now. And it's been compared to, like, Tom
Petty and The Byrds in that kind of vibe with a little Leonard Cohen and Tom
Waits and Kris Kristofferson thrown in, but...

GROSS: Oh, add Johnny Cash.

Mr. THORNTON: And, yes, Johnny Cash was another huge influence on me. And
see, I started out listening--because my mother's such a music fan, I
started
out listening to a lot of Sun Records stuff, like Elvis Presley and Roy
Orbison, Jerry Lee Lewis and that kind of thing. And, you know, Johnny Cash
is on Sun Records also, as well as Carl Perkins. And unsung hero, that
label
was Charlie Rich, which to this day Sam Phillips still says Charlie Rich was
the best guy he ever had. Anyway, so that's what I heard initially. And
then
when the British Invasion kind of happened, my music's probably a result of
all that stuff put together. I listen to Jim Reeves, Ray Price, people like
that that my mother listened to, as well as Herb Alpert. And remember Rod
McKeun, the poet man?

GROSS: I sure do. He had a good record label, actually.

Mr. THORNTON: Yeah.

GROSS: He had his own record label...

Mr. THORNTON: Right.

GROSS: ...on which he recorded, like, Marlene Dietrich and--oh, he brought
out all these, like, reissues from the '30s of German cabaret singers and
American cabaret singers.

Mr. THORNTON: Right.

GROSS: Anyway, I'll say that on his behalf.

Mr. THORNTON: There you go. Yeah. Well, she used to listen...

GROSS: What did you want to say about Rod McKeun?

Mr. THORNTON: Well, just my mom used to listen to those records, and so I
would hear all this poetry with sort of like...

GROSS: Oh, God, yeah.

Mr. THORNTON: ...birds in the background or whatever, and...

GROSS: Yeah.

Mr. THORNTON: ...so as well as...

GROSS: That was some pretty scary stuff. Yeah.

Mr. THORNTON: Right. And then this came in with The Byrds and Crosby,
Stills
& Nash after that, and Buffalo Springfield, all this kind of thing. And
then
I started to listening to, you know, sort of--in '67 when rock 'n' roll
became
rock. You know, '67 is when it changed to--now it's rock music. It's no
longer rock 'n' roll. It's rock. And that's when I listened to Cream and
Deep Purple and Jethro Tull, you know, all this kind of stuff.

GROSS: Well, what...

Mr. THORNTON: So it's all that stuff mixed together is what my music really
is. In my life it's probably more like Frank Zappa and Captain Beefheart.

GROSS: Why don't we hear a track from your new CD, "Private Radio"?

(Soundbite of track from "Private Radio")

Mr. THORNTON: (Singing) Why is this window so dirty and gray? I can't see
you through it anymore. It may be the smoke. It's hard to say. The fact
is
this place has too many doors. I can't find a handle on any of them. Maybe
I
see one, but I don't want to turn it. What if I did and it opened on hell?
Ain't truth a bitch when you have to learn it? Before a heart breaks, it
has
to bend. It's the last one to know when love comes to an end. And your
life's so crazy. You're lonesome and sad. Watching me dark and mad.
Watching me dark and mad.

GROSS: That's Billy Bob Thornton singing on his new CD, "Private Radio."

Now the first movie I saw you in was "One False Move," which you co-wrote
with
Tom Epperson.

Mr. THORNTON: Right.

GROSS: And you play just a really bad killer in this. The first scene is
so
violent and so--it's very upsetting for a scene...

Mr. THORNTON: Yeah.

GROSS: ...and quite an introduction to you as an actor.

Mr. THORNTON: Yeah.

GROSS: And, you know, a lot of movies, particularly in the Quentin
Tarantino
and post-Tarantino era, have been very ironic about violence.

Mr. THORNTON: Right.

GROSS: And there's, like, not an ounce of irony. This is all for real,
very
upsetting. Why did you want that to be the opening scene of the first movie
that you're making by yourself?

Mr. THORNTON: Well, I don't know that I necessarily wanted it to be.
That's
just the movie that we wrote, and that happened to be the one that got made.
Tom and I had written other things that we didn't sell and that didn't get
made. We, at one point in the '80s, had a three-picture deal at Disney. We
wrote a script for them that never got made. This one just happened to be
the
one that got made...

GROSS: Right.

Mr. THORNTON: ...and it got made for very little. And, you know, it wasn't
like we got wealthy from it. It was the one, though, that got us critical
praise and sort of started us off in the business. So I still credit "One
False Move" as being the movie that got me known, at least in the movie
business. "Sling Blade's" the one that made me into whatever I am, but "One
False Move" is the one that really got us working in the business.

And that first scene, you're right, it's very disturbing and it's very
violent, very realistic. The reason we did that--we wanted it to look
almost
like a documentary, where you're really seeing these people being murdered.
It was based on a case that--we talked to this policeman who told us about
this case that happened out in LA once. It was kindly of loosely based on
that, just that part of it, the opening.

But we wanted it to look that way because, you know, frankly, I think you
should be kind of responsible with violence in movies, and always did
really.
And if you don't show it for what it really is, I think that is, in a way,
irresponsible. And we want you to--if I'm going to have violence in a
movie,
I want it to be violence that's going to make people say, `Wow. Boy, do I
never want to be involved in that.' As opposed to making it look cool or
hip
or funny or anything else, I'd rather make it look horrible.

GROSS: Well, you sure succeeded in that scene. It's a terrific film. As
you
said, the film you were really noticed for was "Sling Blade," in which you
played a--Is mentally challenged the right word now? You played a mentally
challenged man released from an institution after serving 25 years for
killing
his mother and her lover. As you made clear when you hosted "Saturday Night
Live," everyone imitates you doing that part. How did you develop the voice
and the character? You wrote the story, in fact, before the movie was made.

Mr. THORNTON: Right.

GROSS: You had a short film based on the same character, and I think you
did
him in a one-man show also.

Mr. THORNTON: Right. Yeah, the first thing I did was the one-man show.
I'd
written just the beginning, kind of what was in the short film that I did in
the one-man show. I did that monologue in the beginning there. It's based
on
life experience, is really what it's based on, all of it. I mean, you know,
the character of Karl in "Sling Blade" is based on a couple of different
people. And I wasn't even conscious that it was based on them when I was
writing it so much. It's like later on it's like, `Oh, wow,' you know? As
a
matter of fact, my mother pointed out to me that part of that was like this
guy that was in Alpine, you know? There was a guy who was kept out back of
his family's house and they, like, fed him sort of like a dog, you know.

But the voice came about when I was working on a movie for HBO. And I was
in
the little sort of--you might call it a dressing room that they'd provided
for
me. I had just a few lines in the movie. I think I had four lines. And
they
had peeled my head because the movie took place in the '20s, and I had this
really stupid-looking haircut. And I just was in the trailer at lunch and I
was thinking, `Wow, you know what? I'm just a joke,' you know? I mean, I
was
looking at myself and I thought, `I got four stupid lines in a cable movie
here. You know, I'm never going to get anywhere.' I was just kind of
feeling
sorry for myself really and started making faces at myself in the mirror,
you
know, just to sort of, like, make it ever more exaggerated. It's like--you
know, it's almost like pinching a sore, you know?

GROSS: Right. Right.

Mr. THORNTON: And so I made that face, and I started talking in that voice
to
myself. I mean, it sounds insane. Maybe it is. I don't know. But that's
where I came up with that part of the character, the look and the voice.
And
then I said that monologue to myself in the mirror that day, that whole
monologue. I don't know where it came from.

GROSS: Why don't we hear that monologue.

Mr. THORNTON: OK.

(Soundbite of "Sling Blade")

Mr. THORNTON: (As Karl) My daddy worked down there at the sawmill, down at

the planner mill, for an old man named Dixon. Old man Dixon was a very
cruel feller. Didn't treat his employees very well, didn't pay 'em too much
of a wage, didn't pay my daddy too much of a wage, just barely enough to get
by on, I reckon. But I reckon he got by all right. Hmm.

They used to come out, one or the other of them, usually my mother, feed me
pretty regular. Mm-hmm. Oh, I know he made enough to where I could have
mustard and biscuits three or four times a week. Hmm. Hmm.

But old man Dixon, he had a boy. His name was Jesse Dixon. Guess he was
really more cruel than his daddy was. He used to make quite a bit of sport
of
me. When I was down there at the schoolhouse, he used to take advantage of
little girls there in the neighborhood and all. Hmm. He used to say that
my
mother was a very pretty woman. He said that quite a bit from time to time
when I'd be down there at the schoolhouse.

Well, I reckon you want me to get on a ways and tell you what happened. I
reckon I'll tell you. I was setting out there in the shed one evening, not
doing too much of nothing, just kind of staring at the wall and waiting on
my
mother to come out...

GROSS: Billy Bob Thornton in a scene from "Sling Blade," which he also
wrote
and directed. We'll talk more after a break. This is FRESH AIR.

(Soundbite of music)

GROSS: If you're just joining us, my guest is screenwriter, director, actor
and musician Billy Bob Thornton.

I want to say something about your voice when you're talking. It sometimes
reminds me of Jimmy Carter and sometimes, particularly in certain roles, of
Hank Hill from "King of the Hill."

Mr. THORNTON: That's funny.

GROSS: Do you think I'm crazy?

Mr. THORNTON: No. I mean, I don't really hear myself, so I don't know. I
mean, I know that my voice has a strange range because I sing very, very
deep,
you know, on certain things, and on other things I sing really high. Like,
on
my second record, I did most of the harmonies on the record, and I have a
very, very high voice. I can sing, you know, like, high harmonies and
stuff.

As a matter of fact, for my tour in Europe--we're doing a tour at the end of
March in Europe--and I've had to hire a female backup singer to sing the
parts
that--you know, because the other guys in the band don't sing as high as I
do.
So we hired her to sing the high parts, because I got to sing the low parts.

But, yeah, "King of the Hill," I like his voice, Hank Hill. Mike Judge does
that. He's a friend of mine. He's really terrific. I love the way he
says,
(as Hank Hill) `Bobby.'

(Soundbite of laughter)

GROSS: Yeah. But you've gotten a lot of media attention, not only for your
work, but also for your marriage to Angelina Jolie. What's different about
being famous than you imagined? Because most people who want to act or make
movies imagine what it would be like to be famous.

Mr. THORNTON: Well, I think probably when you're growing up and you think,
`Hey, one of these days, what if I'm famous or whatever?' I think what you
probably dream of is you dream of, like, The Beatles getting off out at the
airport there and everybody's screaming at you and everything and yelling
your
name. And then when you get famous, it's like the last thing in the world
you
want, you know what I mean? It's like you just--it's like the big sort of
downfall, you know. That's the bad part of it. So it's exactly the
opposite
of what you think you want.

GROSS: And why is that? Why don't you want it?

Mr. THORNTON: Well, you know, you definitely don't want, like, people with
cameras following you to the grocery store. I mean, that's not fun. You
just
want to be left alone to do that normal kind of thing.

GROSS: Let's...

Mr. THORNTON: Maybe at the beginning--it's probably kind of fun in the
beginning, you know?

GROSS: Uh-huh.

Mr. THORNTON: But, you know, I'm a little bit embarrassed around people.
I'm
not sure why. I'm sort of an open person, but at the same time, as much as
I'll talk to anybody--I'll talk to strangers or anybody, I just--you know,
I'm
a fairly friendly person--I'm very embarrassed in public at events. You
know,
I'm not comfortable with it. And, you know, like, these red-carpet deals
and
things like that--I get every embarrassed by that kind of thing. I think
it's
having all the attention--you know, it's like a surprise birthday party, you
know? I'm terrified of that. It's like my worst...

GROSS: Why?

Mr. THORNTON: It's my worst nightmare to walk in my house and have, like, a
bunch of people yell, `Surprise!' and make a big deal and have to open my
gifts in front of everybody. I can't--actually I've had that happen to me
twice in my lifetime and both times I almost had a seizure. But I kind of
feel that way.

It's like, you know, when all the attention is on you, it's just--there's
something embarrassing about that. And also, I feel, I think, I have a lot
of
guilt from, you know, growing up poor and everything, and then suddenly
having
stuff. I feel a little bit guilty about that.

And my brother, who died in 1988, I was always thought it should have been
me
and...

GROSS: How did he die?

Mr. THORNTON: He had a heart problem that nobody really knew about. They
think he maybe had rheumatic fever as a kid. They didn't know that or
something. But he would never go to the doctor. And I think he also had
his
time of drug abuse, you know, which I don't think helped him.

GROSS: Why did you think it should have been you?

Mr. THORNTON: Well, I don't know. He was my younger brother. I was the
one
who had been sick and been near death a couple of times and had real, real
problems with all those other things, you know? I mean, I've been clean of
drugs for over 20 years, but I had a really bad time with it and, you know,
the worst stuff, you know? And--I don't know. He was just a really
talented
person, I always felt far more talented than me, and he was a sort of
genius,
my brother, and he was completely honest, which I am these days, haven't
always been. I mean, I mainly have been, but, I mean, he was the kind of
person who was so honest that--you know, the way I talk about my life these
days, you know, I just don't hold anything back. And if I think something
about something or someone or whatever, I say it, and my brother always did
that, and I think I learned that from him. But you just say it, you say
what
you believe in. He always did. And I think I felt like I was a weaker
person
than him and all that. So I think sometimes I feel guilty about my success.

GROSS: Mm-hmm.

Mr. THORNTON: I think he should have had it.

GROSS: My guest is actor, screenwriter and director Billy Bob Thornton.
We'll talk more after a break. This is FRESH AIR.

(Soundbite of music)

GROSS: My guest is actor, screenwriter and director Billy Bob Thornton. He
just won the National Board of Review's Best Actor award for his
performances
in three films: "The Man Who Wasn't There," "Bandits" and "Monster's Ball."

I want to squeeze in one other scene of yours, and this is from a movie
called
"A Simple Plan." You starred in it. This is about three people who steal
money they find at the site of a plane crash and, you know, they're a little
conflicted about it, but they go through with it. In their attempts to
cover
their tracks, things go terribly bad. This is a scene where your brother is
dropping you off at your house and you're wondering how money's going to
change your life. Now you're playing somebody who's kind of mentally slow
in
this and who isn't physically attractive and, you know, your glasses are
held
together by masking tape around the nosepiece.

Mr. THORNTON: OK.

(Soundbite of "A Simple Plan")

Mr. THORNTON: (As Jake) Why don't you think Celine(ph) will marry me if I'm
rich?

Mr. BILL PAXTON: (As Hank) You don't need money for that.

Mr. THORNTON: Hank.

Mr. PAXTON: Hey, come on. What about--What was her name?--Carrie
Richards(ph)? She liked you even though you were broke-dick.

Mr. THORNTON: Oh, her, yeah. That was a whole different deal. That
was--her
friends, they pitched in a hundred bucks altogether and betted her that she
wouldn't go stay with me for a month.

Mr. PAXTON: Jesus, Jake, I thought you guys had a thing.

Mr. THORNTON: Yeah, well, it wasn't that bad. . Actually, it kind of
cool.
We used to walk around together a lot, you know, taking walks, you know?
And
we talked about all kind of cool stuff. I held hands with her one time when
we were walking around, and my had sweated so much, she--I kind of had to
let
her go. I was nervous, I guess, but it was cool. When the month was over,
she, you know, kind of--she'd say hi to me sometimes in the hallway when I'd
see her. She didn't have to do that. That was cool of her. God, Hank,
I--you know, I've never even kissed a girl before. For--you know, if being
rich will change that, I'm all for it. I don't care. I just want to feel
it,
you know. I just want to know what people do, you know? I don't care if
it's
because of the money.

(Soundbite of thump)

Mr. THORNTON: Hank, I'm going to be happy now, right?

Mr. PAXTON: Sure you are. We all are.

Mr. THORNTON: Yeah, that's right, we all are.

GROSS: This is a very moving scene in which the character reveals a lot
about
himself. Could you talk a little bit about doing this scene and not turning
it into a big fireworks kind of speech, but playing it really low key?

Mr. THORNTON: You know, first of all, as an actor, you're trying to be
realistic, and if you're talking to your brother in a car about something
like
that, it is going to be low key. And sometimes, you know, I mean--well,
when
an actor tries to make a point of something, it's like being at home
pretending you're like a rock star in the mirror or something. You know,
it's
like that's not the way you should do it. You know, you should just kind of
talk or do whatever it is, you know?

And that scene, though, it was very--it was an emotional scene for me. So
what I did really in that scene, because it was, in a sense,
autobiographical,
I put a couple--there were a few lines that I put in there about holding the
girl's hand and it was so sweaty I was embarrassed by it, something like
that.
I had a time when I was in, you know, elementary school and junior high
school
when it was sort of that way for me, and so that scene was very close to me.
And as opposed to trying to put anything more into the scene, I was actually
trying to hold back because I felt a lot of emotion about it. So I was
actually trying to not get emotional, so maybe that's the way it worked--why
it worked out that way.

GROSS: Mm-hmm. One last question. What's the most ridiculous thing that's
even been written about you that wasn't true?

Mr. THORNTON: Well, most of the stuff that's written about me and my wife
is
not true. It's all either from being misquoted, from joking with people.
You
know, in print if you joke with somebody, they don't see how your face looks
at the time or they don't--you know, whatever. There's this whole thing
about
I'm the reincarnation of Ben Franklin, which I don't doubt, but I didn't say
it in seriousness really. I mean, I feel very close to Ben Franklin, I feel
very connected to him and stuff like that, but I'm not positive I was Ben
Franklin.

Anyway, I think probably the most ridiculous thing written about me is that
I
live in a dungeon, particularly given the fact that that's like, as I was
saying earlier, my worst nightmare, you know, some castle.

GROSS: Your antique furniture.

Mr. THORNTON: Yeah. But supposedly my wife and I are these blood-sucking
vampires who live in a dungeon and I only eat orange food, they say, and
this
kind of thing. And, you know, it's all ridiculous. I mean, you know, I'm
having an interview at a hotel where I go a lot of times to the restaurant
and
I have breakfast there and I always eat papaya. That's the first thing I
eat
in the morning because it's good for your digestive system. And I guess it
is
orange, you know, but from that, then suddenly I only eat orange food.
Because the waiter says, `Would you like anything else?' and I say, `No,
that'll be all, thank you.'

And then, you know, my blood is in this sort of locket that my wife wears
around her neck and I have hers on one also. And from that, suddenly you're
like this sort of weird, blood-sucking vampire. So it's, you know--and I've
told people this before. If you put that in a movie--you know, if Mel
Gibson
gave some girl a little locket of his blood in a movie, it would be really
romantic. You do it in real life, you're a weirdo.

GROSS: Well, Billy Bob Thornton, it's been great to talk with you. Thank
you
so much.

Mr. THORNTON: Well, thank you.

GROSS: Billy Bob Thornton just won the best actor award from the National
Board of Review for three films: "The Man Who Wasn't There," "Bandits" and
"Monster's Ball." "Monster's Ball" will open in many more cities in
February.

(Credits)

GROSS: I'm Terry Gross. We'll close with the title track from Billy Bob
Thornton's new CD, "Private Radio."

(Soundbite of "Private Radio")

Mr. THORNTON: (Singing) There are voices in my head and demons in my soul.
Sometimes they keep me warm, sometimes they leave me cold. There are
strangers in my bed...

(Announcements)

GROSS: On the next FRESH AIR, we talk about the new 2002 cars with Paul
Eisenstein, the publisher and editorial director of TheCarConnection.com, an
online magazine that covers cars and the auto industry. Eisenstein just
attended the big car shows in Los Angeles and Detroit, where the latest
models
are introduced.

I'm Terry Gross. Join us for the next FRESH AIR.
Transcripts are created on a rush deadline, and accuracy and availability may vary. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Please be aware that the authoritative record of Fresh Air interviews and reviews are the audio recordings of each segment.